Plumeria forum: Our experience with seedlings

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Name: Terry
Houston, Texas
Plumerias Region: Texas
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Terrynj
Jul 5, 2014 7:39 AM CST
Gigi and I were talking on another thread about seedlings and my response got a little long, so I thought it should be another thread since it it its own subject.

Gigi Plumeria: "I'm bad at growing seedlings, my germination rate is quite high so I stopped growing them. I currently have 75+ or maybe more growing and I'm afraid to get rid of them, just in case one is the "special one" . Some are now over 2 years old. I kept some in small pots so they don't grow too big too fast. Especially if I have to wait 3 to 7 years."

You are exactly right in it is a long process and in your fear of missing the "Special one". I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the caviler attitude most growers have towards seedlings and refer to them as "Common" whites...yellows etc...I have to agree, when ours first started blooming after growing and babying these things for 3-4years, they weren't anything special...they were just whites and yellows...some had some uniqueness and we had some that stuck out...but they weren't that much different than the parents. Over the growing cycles, their personalities started to emerge and after 7 years we started to find plants with really different blooms. Now that they are 10 years old...they are just like children..as different as snowflakes.

At the Plumeria Society sales I go to...it is very common for them to cut seedlings off at the base to graft a named variety...usually reds because they are hard to root. I have no idea what all they discard and they will never know what they are cutting off for another. We never noticed Kiya or Kealani before last year....year 9.

So what we are starting to realize is it takes a while for the seedlings to mature and reveal their true nature. Here are some of our named babies ...we are going to file registration on 5 this year. Remember, besides the bloom, you have to consider the plant itself...the leaf color, structure etc...and smells are as different as the blooms are. The parent plants was a Samoan Fluff (pure white, round petals, yellow center) and an Aztec Gold.

Kiya
Thumb of 2014-07-05/Terrynj/9600b9

Kealani- white and very yellow...they never open more than they are in this photo
Thumb of 2014-07-05/Terrynj/b771fb

Amancer- as different as it gets
Thumb of 2014-07-05/Terrynj/7b7b8c

Amarillo- Oddly shaped petals-has very droppy "Dog Ear" leaves
Thumb of 2014-07-05/Terrynj/c7bc59
Thumb of 2014-07-05/Terrynj/0e01c3

Fools Gold
Thumb of 2014-07-05/Terrynj/d7d4d7

Dawn Glow
Thumb of 2014-07-05/Terrynj/a87f45


Texas Mango
Thumb of 2014-07-05/Terrynj/ef3895

Laguna Moonrise
Thumb of 2014-07-05/Terrynj/1af9c5

We have more, but you get the idea...I have no idea where the purple came from in some of these, but we assume it is just like the DNA in people, in that traits are passed on for generations ..so you never know what you can get. Amanacer is the strangest with its crinkle texture petals. Let me know your experiences!
Name: Hetty
Sunny Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Plumerias Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator Region: Florida Cat Lover Garden Sages Cactus and Succulents Tropicals
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Dutchlady1
Jul 5, 2014 7:57 AM CST

Moderator

Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! for your determination with these seedlings, and the stunning results. If I had more space I would be growing more seedlings.
I am so glad you have decided to register these and look forward to seeing them be available for purchase.

Just as an aside, most people who use seedlings as grafting stock will root the tops.... so they are not lost.

Another interesting anecdote: Sometimes a graft fails and the rootstock grows out to eventually reveal its blooms. This flower, 'Esther's Gold' is the result of one of these events.
Thumb of 2014-07-05/Dutchlady1/4cdf36

Name: Terry
Houston, Texas
Plumerias Region: Texas
Image
Terrynj
Jul 5, 2014 8:19 AM CST
Thank you Hetty! I almost feel like I am being to verbose and posting threads too long ...but we have been doing this by ourselves so long...there is a lot I want to share. We still have a LOT to learn..and do not claim to know it all...just trying to share our experiences. We seeked ansers when we were learning...so I am just trying to shed light where I can for those that seek it.

I assumed most of them would re-root their seedlings....but to me...I would never cut Kiya to the ground so I can root a Puu Kahea and go to the show and see 30 others for sale... I guess I still hate cutting them! haha
Esther Gold is beautiful!

as an add..we saw people selling seedlings for $5!!!! at the show!!!
[Last edited by Terrynj - Jul 5, 2014 8:21 AM (+)]
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Name: Gigi
Florida (Zone 9a)
Plumerias Sempervivums Roses Cactus and Succulents Garden Ideas: Level 1
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GigiPlumeria
Jul 5, 2014 10:17 AM CST
Terry You surely have winners here. They are gorgeous! Lovey dubby Lovey dubby And if they are your babies, they are even more special! I totally agree with you I'd rather own one of those never before seen blooms...(hopefully my own seedlings's bloom) than buy 1 of the 100th in the show. I bought a seedling couple years ago and it bloomed for me last year. I can't wait to see this year's bloom.
©by Gigi Plumeria "Gardening is my favorite past time. I grow whatever plant that catches my attention." Plumeria Photos http://www.flickr.com/groups/calachuchi_plumeria_/ plant photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gigiplumeria/sets/
San Diego (Zone 10a)
Plumerias Roses Region: California
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Mark619
Jul 5, 2014 10:37 AM CST
Speaking of seedlings....I have this on my Samoan Fluff, I've never had a seed pod before..will these seeds give the same exact flower?? Or color??
Thumb of 2014-07-05/Mark619/05f2f7

This seed pod is huge now...this is my Samoan Fluff..
Thumb of 2014-07-05/Mark619/ecbdd7

Name: Terry
Houston, Texas
Plumerias Region: Texas
Image
Terrynj
Jul 5, 2014 10:58 AM CST
Hi Mark! That is a seedling and all the plants I posted above came out of the same seed pod (A Samoan Fluff too)...so no...they wont be the same as the parent. We had some that were very close to the Samoan, and some that were very close to the Aztec that was the other parent...but no matter how much they look like the parent, you can not call them such. The only way you can have a Samoan Fluff is from a cutting off of a certified Samoan Fluff.

Also, that seed pod will take some time to mature...like next spring...so just leave it alone and wait until it opens on its own. I have seen people remove them so they can ripen and that just kills them...leave them on the plant.
They are fun to grow, but it take 3-5 years before they will bloom.That was the purpose of this thread was to show what you can get from seed pods...and that it can be worth the wait!
San Diego (Zone 10a)
Plumerias Roses Region: California
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Mark619
Jul 5, 2014 11:14 AM CST
This is the current status of the seed pod...
Thumb of 2014-07-05/Mark619/688eda

I'm super impatient can't wait to see what they turn out to be!!!
Name: Terry
Houston, Texas
Plumerias Region: Texas
Image
Terrynj
Jul 5, 2014 11:17 AM CST
Thank you Gigi! Yep, they are all babies...the only one we ever questioned was Amancer. It just bloomed one summer and we thought it might have a plant that we purchased at a Plumeria sale...but it doesnt look like anything we've ever seen. It does look a whole lot like Laguna Moonrise (which we knew for sure was a baby). So we were shocked when we realized it was a baby!

We are very proud of our babies and are excited about our grandkids...17 of the 20 seedling we managed to grow this year (after all our seed pods were prematurely taken because of the freezes) are from our 2004 seedlings. We think about 8 of those were fathered by a red...because the main stalk is a very dark red on the seedlings! Can't wait for this crop to grow!
Name: Cheryl
Kingwood, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Greenhouse Composter Plant Identifier Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Amaryllis
Plumerias Ponds Foliage Fan Enjoys or suffers hot summers Tropicals Garden Ideas: Master Level
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ShadyGreenThumb
Jul 5, 2014 2:28 PM CST
Envious here! Lovey dubby
Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love Truly, Laugh
uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you Smile.
Name: Ken Ramsey
Starkville, MS (Zone 8a)
[url=www.tropicalplantsandmore.com]
Orchids Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Ferns Region: United States of America Hummingbirder
Composter Bromeliad Master Gardener: Mississippi Cat Lover Tropicals Plumerias
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drdawg
Jul 5, 2014 2:47 PM CST
This was my first year to actually (try to) germinate some donated seeds (I will never see a seed pod on any of my plants, three of which are over 25 years old). It has been hit-or-miss but I do now have 8 seedlings. Some have names (I assume the plant that bore the seed-pod) and some just state the flower coloration. But regardless, when they grow I guess they will all be NOIDs, or is there a way to label the plants?

Why would one use a seedling for root stock rather than a named plant, one that has been around for decades and is known to be an excellent plant to use as a root stock plant? How would you know which seedlings make good root stock and which do not, particularly if you have never even seen the seedling flower?

I apologize for asking so many questions.
drdawg (Ken Ramsey) - Tropical Plants & More
[url=www.tropicalplantsandmore.com]www.tropicalplantsandmore.com[/url]
If God wanted me to touch my toes, he would have put them on my knees.
Name: Terry
Houston, Texas
Plumerias Region: Texas
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Terrynj
Jul 5, 2014 3:20 PM CST
Hi ken! No, seedlings have no names because they are the own original DNA..just like your kids are not you. The ones that I have, that are really different, can be registered with the Plumeria Society as a new Culitvar. I am putting together the information for them now. If they agree and put them on their Registered List of Plumeria's, making them a "named plant".

What they do is use a well rooted NOID, cut it off at the base, then graft a hard to root Named Plant instead of trying to root it. most of my exotics I have purchased at the PSA sales have been done that way.
Name: Ken Ramsey
Starkville, MS (Zone 8a)
[url=www.tropicalplantsandmore.com]
Orchids Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Ferns Region: United States of America Hummingbirder
Composter Bromeliad Master Gardener: Mississippi Cat Lover Tropicals Plumerias
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drdawg
Jul 5, 2014 4:18 PM CST
Thanks, Terry. Sooooooo, let's say I have seedlings and the pod parent (is that the right terminology for the plant that bares the pod?) is the Scott Pratt. Are you saying that these seedlings will make good root stock, even though the Scott Pratt is very difficult to root and comes back from dormancy very slowly?

I think it is so neat to be able to name a new cultivar and have it then registered with the PSA. I assume this is a arduous, time-consuming chore.
drdawg (Ken Ramsey) - Tropical Plants & More
[url=www.tropicalplantsandmore.com]www.tropicalplantsandmore.com[/url]
If God wanted me to touch my toes, he would have put them on my knees.
Name: Hetty
Sunny Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Plumerias Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator Region: Florida Cat Lover Garden Sages Cactus and Succulents Tropicals
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Dutchlady1
Jul 5, 2014 5:22 PM CST

Moderator

Not arduous or time consuming. Pretty simple and straightforward but you do have to submit pictures in RAW format, which not all cameras can do.
For anyone interested in registering a plumeria I will be happy to explain the steps.


Thumb of 2014-07-05/Dutchlady1/b10e16

Here is my registered seedling 'Allegro'.
Name: Cheryl
Kingwood, Texas (Zone 9a)
Region: Texas Greenhouse Composter Plant Identifier Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Amaryllis
Plumerias Ponds Foliage Fan Enjoys or suffers hot summers Tropicals Garden Ideas: Master Level
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ShadyGreenThumb
Jul 5, 2014 7:18 PM CST
When you register a plumeria, do you get to name it? I imagine there is a plumeria grower named Scott Pratt somewhere??
Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly, Kiss slowly, Love Truly, Laugh
uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you Smile.
Name: Hetty
Sunny Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Plumerias Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator Region: Florida Cat Lover Garden Sages Cactus and Succulents Tropicals
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Dutchlady1
Jul 6, 2014 4:12 AM CST

Moderator

You get to choose your own name, based on a few parameters. For instance 'Vera Cruz Rose' is not a legitimate plumeria name since it implies that it is a rose. But other than names that cause that type of confusion, you are basically free to pick whatever. There is no plumeria named 'Cheryl' yet ...... Whistling
Name: Terry
Houston, Texas
Plumerias Region: Texas
Image
Terrynj
Jul 6, 2014 9:33 AM CST
drdawg said:Thanks, Terry. Sooooooo, let's say I have seedlings and the pod parent (is that the right terminology for the plant that bares the pod?) is the Scott Pratt. Are you saying that these seedlings will make good root stock, even though the Scott Pratt is very difficult to root and comes back from dormancy very slowly?

I think it is so neat to be able to name a new cultivar and have it then registered with the PSA. I assume this is a arduous, time-consuming chore.


Hi Ken! I think you are mis-understanding what I am saying....I am not advocating that seedlings be looked at just rooting material..rather the opposite. The pictures at the top of this thread are seedlings that have matured into beautiful plants that would never consider using as root stock. Smiling

Now one thing we learned is not all of the seedlings will come out like those...they are the top 10% of the group. When you grow ALL the seeds in a pod, it is a mish-mash of different plants with all the same traits as society. We had some ferocious growers and bloomers...some not quite so fast and still bloomed...regular whites and yellows...some that grew, but were bad bloomers. Some that didn't grow very good or bloom, and then we had 2 that were stunted...never grew. We eventually put them in a Bonsai pot...here is a pic from 2012 at 8 years old...they were maybe 10" high. They put out new leaves every year, but never grew...no blooms either..


Thumb of 2014-07-06/Terrynj/85de80

Name: Ken Ramsey
Starkville, MS (Zone 8a)
[url=www.tropicalplantsandmore.com]
Orchids Greenhouse Vegetable Grower Ferns Region: United States of America Hummingbirder
Composter Bromeliad Master Gardener: Mississippi Cat Lover Tropicals Plumerias
Image
drdawg
Jul 6, 2014 10:16 AM CST
That's interesting stuff, Terry. Since I have my very first seedlings EVER, you can tell I know absolutely nothing about plumeria seedlings.

Do you keep labels on your seedlings, perhaps stating that their "mother" plants were? Unless you pollinated under carefully controlled conditions, I guess the "daddy" plants were one-night-stands. Whistling
drdawg (Ken Ramsey) - Tropical Plants & More
[url=www.tropicalplantsandmore.com]www.tropicalplantsandmore.com[/url]
If God wanted me to touch my toes, he would have put them on my knees.
San Diego (Zone 10a)
Plumerias Roses Region: California
Image
Mark619
Jul 6, 2014 10:40 AM CST
Dutchlady1 said:You get to choose your own name, based on a few parameters. For instance 'Vera Cruz Rose' is not a legitimate plumeria name since it implies that it is a rose. But other than names that cause that type of confusion, you are basically free to pick whatever. There is no plumeria named 'Cheryl' yet ...... Whistling


Wait, what do you mean Vera Cruz Rose is not a legit plumeria name? That's one if the most popular Plumerias known...it is a fragrant variety known of course for its smell!!
Name: Gigi
Florida (Zone 9a)
Plumerias Sempervivums Roses Cactus and Succulents Garden Ideas: Level 1
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GigiPlumeria
Jul 6, 2014 10:52 AM CST
Mark I think Hetty means because it has "rose" in it's name. Smiling
©by Gigi Plumeria "Gardening is my favorite past time. I grow whatever plant that catches my attention." Plumeria Photos http://www.flickr.com/groups/calachuchi_plumeria_/ plant photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gigiplumeria/sets/
Name: Gigi
Florida (Zone 9a)
Plumerias Sempervivums Roses Cactus and Succulents Garden Ideas: Level 1
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GigiPlumeria
Jul 6, 2014 11:00 AM CST
Some that didn't grow very good or bloom, and then we had 2 that were stunted...never grew. We eventually put them in a Bonsai pot...here is a pic from 2012 at 8 years old...they were maybe 10" high. They put out new leaves every year, but never grew...no blooms either..


Thumb of 2014-07-06/Terrynj/85de80

[/quote]


Oh no Terry, I wonder if the ones I kept in small pots will get stunted and will not grow or bloom at all! These 2 looks cute though and I have several 2 yr old seedlings that I might have accidentally stunted their growth.

Ken, you can name your seedlings Ken 1 to 8 series or maybe name some after your family members. That's what the Moragne family's did with their owns. In Thailand and Australia they name them with meanings....or "flowery words".

©by Gigi Plumeria "Gardening is my favorite past time. I grow whatever plant that catches my attention." Plumeria Photos http://www.flickr.com/groups/calachuchi_plumeria_/ plant photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gigiplumeria/sets/

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