Roses forum: diseased rose bush? PLEASE help!

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Name: Mary Kay Albrechtson
Rawlins WY (Zone 4a)
I LOVE MY GARDEN!
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marykay37
Jul 18, 2014 10:20 AM CST
This purple rose bush is about 20 years old. It belonged to my mother and I transplanted it to my home (just a few blocks away from her home after she passed 11 years ago) I live in Wyoming which is zone 4. I am posting a picture of what it looked like many years ago. Several years ago, it got infested with tiny black bugs and I have had trouble with this rose bush ever since. For the past few years, I begin to spray the bush with rose food and systemic disease and bug control sprays as soon as growth shows and continue to spray every month. I am also attaching a picture of what the roses now look like. The rose bush is profuse with roses and the plant looks healthy, but the rose petals wilt and die off. Sometimes, the buds don't open. I do spray the tight buds as soon as they appear to try and get any bugs that are inside the bud. This particular rose is highly rose scented. I have several other rose bushes near and around this one and none of them seem to have this problem. They also don't have the strong rose scent that this one does. Also, the color of the roses is fading in color, whereas it used to be a beautiful deep purple and is now faded barely purple. Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas for me? thank you so much.
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Mary Kay
[Last edited by marykay37 - Jul 18, 2014 10:27 AM (+)]
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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Jul 18, 2014 1:11 PM CST

Moderator

What a shame! I've had rose buds and blooms look like this after the buds are fried by a heat wave or frozen by frost, but it happens only occasionally and not year in and year out. Have you tried moving the rose to a new location? I know the other roses near it look fine, but maybe it's just the soil immediately around this plant that's the problem. Those bugs that once infested the plant may still be living in the soil and depleting the strength of the bush from underground.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jul 18, 2014 1:35 PM CST
I wonder if the sprays could be causing the damage? Maybe check with the local county extension agent, they might be of some help, send them the photos and ask their opinion.
Name: Mary Kay Albrechtson
Rawlins WY (Zone 4a)
I LOVE MY GARDEN!
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marykay37
Jul 18, 2014 5:08 PM CST
Thank you for your ideas. I did take my wilted roses to the county extension office the first year and they had no idea what was wrong, so they had me send a large branch of my rose bush to the University of Wyoming Horticultural Dept and they determined that my plant was infested with _____________and I can't remember what they were called. They told me to cut ALL rose buds off and spray the entire plant with insect spray to get rid of the bugs.
I am wondering if I transplant the rose bush to another spot if I will take the bugs with it (if they are living in or around the roots) What do you think? I certainly don't want to spread whatever it is that I have. It's interesting that it is only this one rose bush that is so sick looking and none of the ones around it. THANK YOU AGAIN for your help!
Mary Kay
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Jul 18, 2014 5:24 PM CST

Moderator

If the soil surrounding the rose is a breeding ground for the pest, you should use a pesticide soil drench to break the breeding cycle. I can't recommend any particular brand, but if you ask for a pesticide soil drench at a nursery, they'll give you more information, I'm sure.

If I were transplanting a rose because I suspected soil damage, I'd wait until the rose was dormant and then treat it like a bare-root rose. Shake off as much soil as possible and then soak the roots to dislodge any remaining soil before you plant it in the new location.
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
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porkpal
Jul 18, 2014 7:04 PM CST
Could the pest be thrips?
Porkpal
Name: Mary Kay Albrechtson
Rawlins WY (Zone 4a)
I LOVE MY GARDEN!
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marykay37
Jul 18, 2014 8:20 PM CST
Yes!!! Thrips!!! That is what those little buggars are called!! They are next to impossible to get rid of!!! However, every time I cut a rose off this bush because it looks like the one above, I cut it open and shake the rose over a white piece of paper (the county extension office told me to do that so I could see the thrips because they are so small) and I'm not seeing any thrips this year, but something is still clearly zapping the life out of the roses!
I really like the suggestion of waiting until the rose bush has gone dormant to transplant it. I was thinking just that because if I transplant it now, I am going to take the breeding ground for the thrips or whatever else it is that is killing my roses to the new location!!! Thank you ALL SO MUCH!!!! Anymore ideas or suggestions are greatly appreciated. I just don't want to lose this rose bush since it belonged to my mom. I can't replace it.
Mary Kay
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Plant and/or Seed Trader Permaculture Roses Ponds Peonies
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CindiKS
Jul 20, 2014 5:39 AM CST
You might try taking a cutting of the rose and rooting it to start a new one, just in case. Some roses just have a limited life span. There are several threads in this forum on rooting from cuttings.
I have plants from my grandmothers and I know what you mean about saving them. Group hug
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Name: Mary Kay Albrechtson
Rawlins WY (Zone 4a)
I LOVE MY GARDEN!
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marykay37
Jul 20, 2014 7:20 AM CST
Cindi, I LOVE your signature line! I will attempt to root a cutting off this rose bush. I have tried rooting from other rose bushes in the past with no success, but I am willing to try it again if it means saving this rose bush! Thank you ALL so much for your advice. I did try another round of systemic disease and bug control and I really doused the plant and surrounding ground more than I have in the past.
Mary Kay
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Plant and/or Seed Trader Permaculture Roses Ponds Peonies
Lilies Irises Daylilies Dog Lover Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level
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CindiKS
Jul 21, 2014 9:33 AM CST
Thanks, Mary Kay. Right now my gardens look pretty unloved. We just came out of a week of record low temps and I had too much else on my plate to do any gardening at all! Such a lost opportunity! Now I'll be trying to catch up in the heat.
The grasshoppers are so bad this year that they not only stripped the roses, but one large evergreen holly is down to stems only. My bees had better produce a lot of honey this year! Because of them, I stay organic, and the grasshoppers feast.

If you do cuttings, I would suggest taking a lot of cuttings to better your odds.
I even bought a cloning machine, kinda like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Botanicare-HSCL25-Plant-Clone-Machine/...
and I still can't get some roses to take root.

Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Name: Mary Kay Albrechtson
Rawlins WY (Zone 4a)
I LOVE MY GARDEN!
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marykay37
Jul 21, 2014 12:54 PM CST
Cindi, I also try my hardest to stay organic and do everything in my power to invite the bees to my garden and flower beds. However, with these wretched thrips, I am losing the war because I think I need to use something stronger than organic soap sprays!!! But I am with you in that we need the bees and less damaging chemicals! (Of course my beloved purple rose bush might trump that organic way just to save the bush!)
I can't believe that you have had record low temps!! It is unseasonably hot here this summer. Maybe we can trade a little bit of temperature weather!!!
So, I have tried unsuccessfully to get rose cuttings to start for about 5 years now. I keep trying but have never had any luck. I did as you recommended and took several cuttings. I also bought some powder that you dip the stem in to to encourage root growth. No luck.....I bought Schultz Take Root, Rooting Hormone and the bottle says "Grow new plants from cuttings". It hasn't worked yet. I'm attaching two pictures of the rose bush that I keep trying to get a starter from! We live in Nevada in the winter time and this rose bush is down there. It's not that the cuttings don't survive in Wyoming, when we come back up here for the summer, they don't even root! I usually get about 6 different starters going. They last about a month and then the stem rots away. Thanks for the link on the cloning machine!!! I will take a look at it and see!!!! I would LOVE to get a rose bush started from "scratch" and especially my mom's purple one if it the roots are diseased. Thank you so much for everything. Tell your garden that you love them and give them some water and attention. They will pay you back!!! OH! I am using your tag line now as my signature line on my email! I LOVE IT! Thank You!
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Mary Kay
Name: Andi
Pocono Mountains, PA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member I helped beta test the first seed swap
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GardenQuilts
Jul 22, 2014 11:22 AM CST
If the "starter" plants from the cuttings rot away at the stem, they could be damping off. Planting the baby plant in sterilized medium watering with filtered water with a dash of hydrogen peroxide or cooled chamomile tea and sprinkling the surface of the potting medium with cinnamon may help. There is a lot of information on this site and online about damping off.

Treating the baby plant with systemic rose fungicide may also help. I would try a more dilute dose at first to not burn the fragile roots.

I have also tried unsuccessfully to root rose cuttings. I will try again eventually. One of my roses, Baby Blanket, successfully roots itself by layering. You could try layering the rose on purpose. Lay a branch close to the ground against the ground, hold it down, put some good potting soil on it and hold it down with a small flat rock or something. Leave it for a long while. The branch in the ground may eventually grow roots. Once it starts sending up vertical growth, check for roots, cut the branch to the main plant and baby the new plant.

I have also read about people wrapping part of the cane with rooting hormone and peat moss and plastic wrap. the wrapped part can grow roots and be a new plant.

I hope you manage to both save and propagate your favorite roses.

I tried growing roses organically with mixed results. I try growing new, disease resistant roses naturally at first. If they start getting blackspot or other problems, I add them to the list of roses needing systemic fungicide and sprays. Some of my roses are fine with only neems spray for aphids.
Name: William Shuter
Kent (The Garden of England) U

Roses
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wiseowl
Jul 22, 2014 11:57 AM CST
Hi this may help.

-
THRIPS

If the petals are blackened,with mottling and distortion, this

is likely to have been caused by the Rose thrip, Thrips fuscipennis.
Thrips, also known as Thunderflies, are small, narrow

insects just 2mm long, slightly wider at the front end. They tend

to jump away when disturbed,though you can usually confirm

their presence by shaking an affected shoot over a sheet of

white paper. They are more of a problem in a hot summer and, if

you notice a lot of damage early in the season, spray with a

general-purpose insecticide to reduce future damage.


ALTERNATIVE

I have used 2 spoonfuls of white Vinegar to one gallon of water
but only with limited success.
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery. Today?
Today is a gift. That is why we call it the present.;)
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Name: Mary Kay Albrechtson
Rawlins WY (Zone 4a)
I LOVE MY GARDEN!
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marykay37
Jul 22, 2014 4:53 PM CST
Garden Quilts, Thank you for your advice on trying to re-root from a cutting from a rose bush. I have never heard of damping off. I have SO MUCH to learn! I will try your advice with sterilized water and hydrogen peroxide!!! It can't hurt to try, right???
Wise Owl, Thank you on your information about thrips. I really try to keep my garden pesticide free but I am learning that thrips are tough and nothing seems to kill them. I will try the Vinegar and water solution just because I happen to have a gallon of vinegar and it also can't hurt, right?
Cindi, that cloning machine is expensive!! How does it work, do you know?
Thank You! Thank you ALL for your advice and suggestions!!!! I really appreciate all of them!
Mary Kay
Mary Kay
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Jul 22, 2014 6:18 PM CST

Moderator

marykay37 said:I will try the Vinegar and water solution just because I happen to have a gallon of vinegar and it also can't hurt, right?


It most certainly can hurt! Please put as little vinegar as possible in that solution. Most people use vinegar as an herbicide. It kills plants.
Name: Mary Kay Albrechtson
Rawlins WY (Zone 4a)
I LOVE MY GARDEN!
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marykay37
Jul 22, 2014 7:43 PM CST
oh thank for the warning!!! I know years ago, I had slugs in my garden and I read about pouring salt on them to kill them. Yes, it worked like a charm!! It also killed my soil!!!! That was a disaster, because I depleted all of the nutrients, etc from the soil by pouring table salt on the slugs!!! Oh! Its hard to stay organic!
Mary Kay
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Jul 22, 2014 10:07 PM CST
Welcome! Mary Kay.

I don't know if you have heard of the "burrito" method of rose propagation of cuttings, but I do know that several people across the country have used it very successfully the first time they have ever propagated rose cuttings.

This method of propagation was first described on the Rose Hybridizers Forum.

Kim Rupert has been my rose mentor for so long neither one of us can remember when we started sharing what we know about roses ... Hilarious! When he had incredible success using the burrito method of propagation, he started a blog with lots of photos of how to use this method. It does have to be tweaked a bit for your climate. The fact that the rose you want to propagate is in Nevada instead of Wyoming means it will probably be easier to propagate the rose there.

Over time, Kim has continued to tweak this propagation process, so you might want to continue reading the newer blog entries.

Here's a link to the first entry of his blog where he starts teaching about the burrito method:

http://pushingtheroseenvelope.blogspot.com/search?updated-mi...

I hope this helps.

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Mary Kay Albrechtson
Rawlins WY (Zone 4a)
I LOVE MY GARDEN!
Image
marykay37
Jul 23, 2014 7:19 AM CST
Lyn, THANK YOU! I want to get another rose bush started from my beloved purple rose bush that is here in WY (the one that has had thrips sucking the life out of it for several years) and then also one that is in Nevada. So, that should keep me busy in both states and different times of the year!! I will read Kim's blog as I have never heard of the burrito method! I love your sense of humor and I also love your tag line. I would rather weed than dust too!!!! Thank You! You guys are ALL awesome!!!!
Mary Kay
Mary Kay
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Plant and/or Seed Trader Permaculture Roses Ponds Peonies
Lilies Irises Daylilies Dog Lover Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level
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CindiKS
Jul 23, 2014 8:54 AM CST
Mary Kay,
The ONLY advantage the cloning machine has to the burrito method is it's faster. Save your money, do the burrito!
I didn't buy the exact machine in the link I gave. I didn't take the time to find the one I bought, sorry! There is a thread on here somewhere that has instructions for making your own cloning machine from a rubbermaid tub and an aquarium pump. The cloning machine has a rod with tiny spray nozzles that put out a mist. That is the advantage to it. You can also make that yourself with pieces found in the irrigation section of any Lowes or Home Depot. Or online on Amazon. The pieces are cheap--less than $1 apiece.
If you google home made cloning machine, you pull up lots of pot grower websites but the information is applicable to growing legal plants too!
READ Kim's blog. He has the best information available. I envy Lyn having all those years working with him. Gardenweb has quite a few posts from Kim. When I first started getting real serious about roses, his posts were what helped me succeed.
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
[Last edited by CindiKS - Jul 23, 2014 8:55 AM (+)]
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Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Jul 23, 2014 11:53 AM CST
Cindi ....

I have learned a lot from Kim, but he says he's learned a lot from me. I think we all learn a lot from each other because we see roses with different eyes and garden in different climates.

I am always experimenting and following Kim's most important lesson ... learn from the rose.

I think sharing what we have learned with others makes our rose lives even richer.

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.

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