Sempervivum and Jovibarba forum: Sempervivum 'Red Summer'

Views: 370, Replies: 17 » Jump to the end
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
Image
valleylynn
Aug 25, 2014 1:20 PM CST

Moderator

I need you all to put your Sherlock Holms hats on.
We need to find out the true identity of S. 'Red Summer'.
Hybridizer is : WILLIAM NEWHARD (US), 1977

We have this one in the database:


This one on sempervivum-liste.de :
http://sempervivum-liste.de/Sempervivum/Red%20Summer

Will the real 'Red Summer' please step forward. Smiling
Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
JungleShadows
Aug 25, 2014 5:52 PM CST
Lynn,

Bill Newhard did grow some seedlings (I grew two of his dark-leaved ones in the early 70's) but as far as I know he never really named any of his own. He did sell a lot of semps in the early 70's and it may be one that he sold and no one knew its actual source. Shirley Rempel was credited with my 'Jungle Fires' for a while too and still is in some lists. That is wrong. at first i thought she introduced it, but it appears in Helen's list first, not hers.

Bill had gotten things from Sanford directly so it might have come so named and he just perpetuated the name.

Anyway, just my two cents!

Kevin
Name: Patty
Washington State (Zone 8b)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
Patty
Aug 25, 2014 6:03 PM CST
"Erwin" at Semper-vivum.de posted a pic of Red Summer on Facebook in 2012; it's the same type semp
as the other German sites. We are outnumbered!
Patty 🌺
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
Image
valleylynn
Aug 25, 2014 7:15 PM CST

Moderator

Thank you for that information Kevin.
Sure wish we had an early photo or description of it. Would sure make things easier.

I think we need to try digging a little further to see if we can find a description of it from the 70's or 80's.

My question would be, if we can't find a description, what should we do with the entry in the database?
Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
JungleShadows
Aug 25, 2014 7:36 PM CST
Lynn,

I'm sure there is a plant with this name but it should not be credited to Bill Newhard.

Newhard's lists had NO DESCRIPTIONS just a list of names so they are not useful. It does not appear in any of Helen's lists nor the ones of Betty Bronow's I own either, both of whom did write descriptions.

I have a copy of the cultivars that Peter Mitchell recognized when he became the international registrar and Red Summer is not on that list. That would have been ~1978.

Unfortunately MOST of the cultivars don't have published descriptions so we are sort of "horticultural archaeologists" as we try to piece back history. Unfortunately there are very few of us old timers left.

Kevin
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
Image
valleylynn
Aug 25, 2014 7:45 PM CST

Moderator

So should we just keep this entry,write a description of it?
Then do we remove the name of Bill Newhar? Or do we leave the name with a question mark after it?
Name: Patty
Washington State (Zone 8b)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
Patty
Aug 25, 2014 8:11 PM CST
Kevin, did you look at Horsts site? There are a couple photos and a description of the plant from Erwin Geiger. It seems like this is more likely to be accurate than the one on our database. Where did you get your plant, Lynn?
Patty 🌺
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
Image
valleylynn
Aug 25, 2014 9:21 PM CST

Moderator

From a nursery in Virginia. All their semps come from a local semp grower. Maybe I can get more information from them when I go back in the next month or so.

We have found that not all of the Germany semps from American breeders are correct. I think most are, but not all.
Name: Bev
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
Sempervivums Container Gardener Foliage Fan Garden Ideas: Master Level Photo Contest Winner: 2014
Image
webesemps
Aug 25, 2014 10:08 PM CST
Lynn, where do you go for this nursery in Virginia?
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
Image
valleylynn
Aug 25, 2014 11:30 PM CST

Moderator

http://www.merrifieldgardencenter.com/Home.aspx
There are three family owned nurseries.
Name: Bev
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
Sempervivums Container Gardener Foliage Fan Garden Ideas: Master Level Photo Contest Winner: 2014
Image
webesemps
Aug 25, 2014 11:40 PM CST
I think I've been to at least one. Never looked for semps then.
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
Image
valleylynn
Aug 25, 2014 11:48 PM CST

Moderator

It is a wonderful place to shop for plants.
Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
JungleShadows
Aug 26, 2014 8:55 AM CST
Patty,

Whatever the plant is, I would say it is NOT Bill Newhard's. It's one I don't know and never grew. To my knowledge he named NO seedlings and he had stopped selling anything by '78. He did name a few irises, including a lovely standard dwarf called 'Trend', that was a good approach to green.

Kevin
Name: Patty
Washington State (Zone 8b)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
Patty
Aug 26, 2014 9:09 AM CST
I'm confused (ha! Nothing new!)... Are you saying we should call both Red Summers NOIDs?
Patty 🌺
Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
Garden Photography Region: Pacific Northwest Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Dog Lover Foliage Fan Greenhouse Container Gardener Heucheras Sedums
Image
springcolor
Aug 26, 2014 9:20 AM CST
This is mine.
Thumb of 2014-08-26/springcolor/9cd04f
Came from PO..

Sempervivum for Sale
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
Image
valleylynn
Aug 26, 2014 11:06 AM CST

Moderator

I think mine and Cynda's are the same plant.

We will leave Red Summer in the database, but I will remove the information for the hybridizer.
Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
JungleShadows
Aug 26, 2014 1:19 PM CST
No, I think it may be a legitimate name but credited to Bill Newhard. it shouldn't be.

Think we really need a plant from the Europeans to see if they matcvh. Descriptions are generally not good enough, even detailed ones. You need to grow them side by side.

Kevin
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
Image
valleylynn
Aug 26, 2014 2:02 PM CST

Moderator

The European one is definitely not the same as the one we have here.
http://sempervivum-liste.de/Sempervivum/Red%20Summer

« Garden.org Homepage
« Back to the top
« Forums List
« Sempervivum and Jovibarba forum
You must first create a username and login before you can reply to this thread.

Today's site banner is by Paul2032 and is called "French Marigold"