Daylilies forum: Beginner questions

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Name: Kyla
Richmond, VA (Zone 6b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
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kylaluaz
Sep 27, 2014 4:47 PM CST
I hope I can get some basic beginner questions answered here; usually my gardening style is to just wing it and let things unfold as they may and learn from my mistakes, but for some reason I'm feeling the urge to get a little more information about daylilies before embarking on my "learn from mistakes" path.

I hope you will indulge me a little in my ignorance.

I purchased some unidentified plants from Teresa ( @bluegrassmom ) a while ago in her Rainbow Sale and all of them are doing beautifully! I'm watching them closely and hope to have a little patch of gorgeous blooms next year. (I have never seen a daylily I don't like so I know I'll be thrilled.) (Though I have definitely seen some pictures of ones that are exceptionally gorgeous to me, too!)

I also just got some seeds from Cindy ( @Hemlady ). These are marked with the lineage (parentage?) and I am unfamiliar with any of that. I don't know any of the names, is what I mean, and I will probably google, and look in the database here to see what images I can find of those. I gather that it is yet to be seen what will show up when these bloom? And as such, they will also be unnamed?

In terms of cultivation, I want to wintersow the seeds. I may take a few seeds out and try to grow them now, though, to see if I get enough ahead of winter to put a few in the ground. Tips about growing media are eagerly sought here!

And my understanding is that, once these bloom (which may not be until the second year?) the blooms will be unique in some way, and subsequent seeds will not bloom true but will have different characteristics, so if I want to reproduce a plant I have to take a division.

See, really really basic. Um, maybe someone could recommend a total beginners resource for me. Or point me toward such?

Thanks for any guidance!

Name: Pat
Near McIntosh, Florida (Zone 9a)
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Xenacrockett
Sep 28, 2014 12:25 AM CST

Good questions, Kyla.

I'm also a beginner and have found a number of daylily groups on Facebook as also being a good info source, although ATP may give more in depth answers.

Perhaps someone from your planting zone will come along to answer your question on winter sowing.
For me, I wouldn't do it here for fear of having seeds get lost.

The most dependable way for me has been distilled water with peroxide spouting in the little plastic bags and then planting in cups until large enough to go in the ground.
Our 1st freeze here normally doesn't come until Christmas -- I'm pretty much done spouting seeds since seedlings don't do too well if kept in the house too long it seems.
Name: Kyla
Richmond, VA (Zone 6b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
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kylaluaz
Sep 28, 2014 5:48 AM CST
Hi Pat, and thanks! I really have no place to work with seeds inside here, is one issue.

The wintersowing is actually the most reliable seed-starting method I have for everything else, so I feel okay about it for these too.

I think you answered another question: the seeds should be soaked before planting? I also read, somewhere, that it's good to refrigerate them for a while. Our first frost is said to occur around the end of October so I might be able to get something in the ground soon enough, if I get cracking! but I have no idea how long germination takes, for instance, so I hesitate.

Oh, and I'm a Facebook holdout; no Facebook for me. I know I miss some good resources and connections that way but, well, nope, not going there. Green Grin!
Name: Pat
Near McIntosh, Florida (Zone 9a)
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Xenacrockett
Sep 28, 2014 6:17 AM CST
I don't think you need to chill or moisturize them up there in VA, Kyla.
That will happen when they are in the ground.

If in the ground planting works for you, by all means go for it.
I know there are others on this board who do the same thing.

Germination can take a long time. The seeds know what to do, unless you bought some dumb seeds. Smiling
Name: Lisa Klette
Dayton, KY (Zone 6a)
Daylilies Garden Art Plant and/or Seed Trader Region: Kentucky Hostas Sempervivums
Dahlias Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Lilydaydreamer
Sep 28, 2014 7:01 AM CST
Kyla,

Welcome to the Daylily family. Sounds like you are off to a good start. There are many resources to help keep you going:

The thread "starting seeds outside" in Daylilies forum
http://www.pbase.com/ewelch/hybridizing
AHS website http://www.daylilies.org/

article about starting seeds
http://www.midaylilysociety.com/starting-daylilies-from-seed...


I personally start my seeds in the spring as I only have a few seeds each of many crosses (and a few are expensive). I like starting in solo cups and then transplanting. I know that one of my local hybridizers with a commercial garden direct sows his seeds late enough in the fall that they do not germinate till spring.

Happy gardening!
Lisa
Love what you teach and teach what you love!
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Sep 28, 2014 7:12 AM CST
Well, as a beginner also (really I have grown daylilies for years just never did anything for them) I have asked those same questions.
1. I gather that it is yet to be seen what will show up when these bloom? And as such, they will also be unnamed?
That is correct, sometimes the new daylilies will look a lot like one of the parents sometimes not so much.
You are also correct in that the new plants will be unnamed. But you could name them if you wanted to,
if nothing else you could give them a "garden name". I don't bother with names for anything other than the
ones I buy or get with registered names.

2. In terms of cultivation, I want to wintersow the seeds. I may take a few seeds out and try to grow them now, though, to see if I get enough ahead of winter to put a few in the ground. Tips about growing media are eagerly sought here!
Winter sowing should work fine for daylilies. I just plant mine in the ground or small plastic pots (later I put
them in the ground after they get a little size. Mostly that is to protect them from the critters digging them
up when they are so tiny. Daylily seeds vary in the amount of time needed for germination, depending a
a lot of the variety some will germinate in a few days and others may take weeks or possibly months.
Fresh seed tend to germinate pretty fast, but some do need a chilling period while others don't.
Growing media seems to vary a lot from person to person, I grow mine in pots using nothing but my home
made compost, sometimes I will blend it with perlite sometimes with some sand, but mostly just compost.
Others use pile bark and sand along with other amendments,people use seed starting mix, potting mix or
other homemade mixtures. It seems to come down to using what suits your budget and style of growing
that still allows the daylilies to perform well.
3. And my understanding is that, once these bloom (which may not be until the second year?) the blooms will be unique in some way, and subsequent seeds will not bloom true but will have different characteristics, so if I want to reproduce a plant I have to take a division.
The bloom may be very different or very similar to one of the parents, but it is true that no daylily
that I am aware of comes true for seed. Even if self pollinated the new seedling will be different in some
ways from the parent. The blooms could actually look identical, yet other traits would be different, or the
bloom could be a different color, shape, texture etc. Things like dormancy, height, rate of growth, etc.
be different. So if you want an identical plant you will have to use a proliferation or division of the original
plant.
[Last edited by Seedfork - Sep 28, 2014 7:24 AM (+)]
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Name: Kyla
Richmond, VA (Zone 6b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
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kylaluaz
Sep 28, 2014 9:03 AM CST
Oh, perfect! Thank you all, this is just the kind of information I need.

@Lilydaydreamer Lisa, thanks for the links; I did look at the links connected with this forum, and have read a few things here and there, but it's time to get Serious. Green Grin!

As for planting outside, what I will likely do is sow a few in small pots, but they will be outside simply due to lack of appropriate places inside. And then later I will wintersow the bulk of them. (Unless I have a humongous amount of some kind of seeds, that are very high germination rate, I don't generally sow anything directly in the ground, it's just too dang iffy! )

And, @seedfork, that is all super reassuring. Honestly, the mystery of what blooms will look like, and that they may even change from year to year, is part of the appeal.

@Xenacrockett Pat, LOL! No, these are highly intelligent seeds, I feel quite sure.

Okay, another question, regarding pollination and crossing: When I moved in here one of the main things blooming was a bunch of those big orange ditchlilies. I enjoy those and think they're gorgeous but for various reasons I ended up lifting a ton of them up and replanting some. Some I potted up, many I just clunked the chunks in a holding box to see if I ever come up with what to do with them! Lordy those things are prolific!

My question is, having those growing close to these hybrids, will everything eventually end up looking like the ditchlilies??? (GAH!) Rolling on the floor laughing

But it's a serious question. Should I minimize cross-pollination chances with those big orange guys? Or does it not pose that much of a "takeover" threat?
springfield MO area (Zone 6a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier
Frillylily
Sep 28, 2014 9:30 AM CST
The plant you start with will always be the same. The roots never change over into something else. The seeds are what is different. It will not matter if you grow them right next to eachother. The problem is the ditch lilies are very vigorous growers and can take over the nicer dl and choke them out.
Name: Kyla
Richmond, VA (Zone 6b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
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kylaluaz
Sep 28, 2014 10:53 AM CST
Okay, thanks much, and that will not happen as I intend to be ruthless with them. The H. Fulva, that is. I'm trying to learn the name so I won't keep calling them "ditch lilies." Green Grin!

Edit: So, if I intended to collect seeds, I would have to work with plants not in contact with the Fulva?
[Last edited by kylaluaz - Sep 28, 2014 10:54 AM (+)]
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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Sep 28, 2014 7:26 PM CST
I just looked Fulva up in the database and noticed it said Fragrant, funny I have never noticed with as many as I have. I am not much into hybridizing, but there may be qualities in Fulva that would have some appeal for breeding with other plants. I would think if you really got into hybridizing you would have to be careful of all the daylilies around your selected parents. I would think Fulva was probably used in many hybrid plants, I don't know that, but I don't see why not.
Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
Hybridizer Irises Butterflies Charter ATP Member Birds Cat Lover
Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Vegetable Grower Daylilies Hummingbirder Heucheras
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Hemlady
Sep 29, 2014 4:55 AM CST
I thought I read somewhere on here that pollen from Fulva is sterile. Could be wrong but maybe someone else knows.
Lighthouse Gardens
Name: Kyla
Richmond, VA (Zone 6b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
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kylaluaz
Sep 29, 2014 5:35 AM CST
I started googling just now and haven'tseen anything specifically about its pollen but did see a comment that says it is a sterile triploid that does not set seed. So....

However, unlike other dl, it can grow from a root segment with no crown, and apparently will choke out other dls. (Realize Frillylily already warned about that, but somehow this sounded more dire!)

Oops.

I have definitely seen it sprout up in an area where I believed I'd removed it all, and I can see a problem in the future where I had intended to leave some, and planted the hybrids in front. Right now, I know which is which, but once Fulva var. Fulva starts to multiply or the others do, I won't know! Eek. Maybe I need to rethink this bed I have going. Hmmm!

[Last edited by kylaluaz - Sep 29, 2014 6:14 AM (+)]
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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Sep 29, 2014 6:51 AM CST
Well, looking in the database it says that Fulva is self-fertile
"If a daylily will self-pollinate, we then know it is both pod and pollen fertile and that it either lacks a self-incompatibility system or has a self-fertility gene present. Daylilies that are pod- and pollen-fertile but do not self-pollinate probably have a self-incompatibility gene system present. Problems with either pod or pollen fertility should be relatively evident from the results, although it may take time to find good test parents. These preliminary results may not be completely reliable but should give hybridizers an indication of potential fertility problems."
http://www.cascadebulbandseed.com/fert-2.html
Not exactly sure what that means, but to me it conflicts with being sterile. I read in a couple of places that it "seldom" produces viable seed.
Name: Kyla
Richmond, VA (Zone 6b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
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kylaluaz
Sep 29, 2014 7:01 AM CST
Plants are endlessly mysterious! That's part of the pleasure of gardening, IMO.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Sep 29, 2014 7:06 AM CST
kylaluaz,
Last year I think or early this year, I had planted several Fulva, Kwanso and Flore Pleno daylilies in my rose bed (still have not been able to positively ID those two). Anyhow I read several articles about how aggressive the plants were and as soon as I finished reading those articles I rushed to the garden in a panic and dug them all up. Yes I did leave a few roots and I have had a couple of plants return, but I envisioned the entire bed being taken over and devoured by those aggressive roots. I did the same thing when reading about some ferns, again I panicked and rushed to the garden and dug them all up fearing a fern invasion. Well I actually did sort of end up with a fern invasion, they were much more aggressive with their roots than the daylilies
[Last edited by Seedfork - Sep 29, 2014 7:09 AM (+)]
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Name: Kyla
Richmond, VA (Zone 6b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
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kylaluaz
Sep 29, 2014 8:03 AM CST
Hilarious!

Um, yep, I considered rushing out to dig up the Fulva but then had another think. I know at this point which is which, that is, which lily plants are Fulva and which are my new unnamed-but-groovy acquisitions. Unless the Fulva multiply over the winter (GAH! Sticking tongue out ) I'll still know in the spring which is which. If I watch them closely and make sure to remove new starts and thin the Fulva during the season, I think I'll be okay. For a while.

(though I can hear them plotting now, underground, how to foil my plans to contain the Orange Flood!)

Rolling on the floor laughing
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Sep 29, 2014 8:47 AM CST
They have really not been a problem for me, but they can be deceptive in how they grow. Most daylilies will multiply right next to the parent plant, but the ones with roots that run and send up shoots might show up two or even three feet away making it hard to recognize them if they happen to come up in a clump of the groovy acquisitions that were growing near by.
Name: Kyla
Richmond, VA (Zone 6b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
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kylaluaz
Sep 29, 2014 9:08 AM CST
Glare

Well, it will be interesting to see what I do.

Whistling

Hilarious!
Name: Teresa
South central KY (Zone 6b)
Consider the lilies of the field
Seller of Garden Stuff Irises Hostas Region: Kentucky Lilies Peonies
Region: United States of America Garden Photography Vegetable Grower Hummingbirder Cat Lover Heucheras
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bluegrassmom
Sep 29, 2014 2:21 PM CST
Hi, Kyla
It is good to see you here. I have been staying with mom and offline for a few days. I am glad that your plants are doing well. I sure hope you get lots of blooms next year. I gave some to a local church nearby, the lady said I just hope I don't Kill Them. I laughed and told her they are quite sturdy plants.

I am sure if you had questions several of us could help. Good luck!

Teresa
Thumb of 2014-09-29/bluegrassmom/9e1e0d

I love this cooler weather, but I am missing the masses of blooms!

Name: Kyla
Richmond, VA (Zone 6b)
Composter Plant Identifier Organic Gardener Herbs Daylilies Sempervivums
Frogs and Toads Container Gardener Cat Lover Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! The WITWIT Badge Winter Sowing
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kylaluaz
Sep 29, 2014 4:55 PM CST
Thanks, Teresa, and I hope your mom is doing well. Smiling

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