Had to look up Glo-Ray. Wow! Must be stunning in the garden. Do you have any bloom pics of it?

Henhouse said:

I'm skeptical about Pep Rally.. Seems more like a plicata to me.. And there are a few I have that I suspect are Luminatas that didn't come up in the database search.

Luminatas are derived from plicata breeding. They are basically plicatas in reverse. Instead of having a light ground color with anthocyanin pigment concentrated along the edges of the petals as in plicatas, in luminatas the ground color mostly shows at the edges of the petals and the heart of the flower. Of course, as with the other "flower patterns" listed in the database, there are plenty of irises that don't fit neatly into the boxes we make up for them. Pep Rally is one, but there are others. They are sometimes described as "lumi-plics" in catalogs.

Which luminatas do you have that don't show up in a database search?

I'd guess less than 20% of the entries in the Iris Database are "done" in the sense that every bit of information that could be added to them, has been. Flower Patterns, in particular, have to be added manually because there's no official source for that information. Nor should there be, it's not like AIS has attempted to determine what is or isn't a luminata, for example. Iris flower patterns (and hybridizers ) are too diverse for any standardized system to really work. We decided to include flower patterns in the Iris Database as a search aid, nothing more (well, it might serve as an educational tool as well).

Thanks for the luminata definition, Kent. I was about to ask for one. I'll have to peruse the "Flower Pattern" part of the Database.
I have Montmartre and of Daughter of Stars, maybe some others, but they are all newly bought.So much to learn!

The Median Iris society worked on the ID of luminatas in the 1960-70 period. those people interested in historic irises can often spot them as they were known as 'fancy'.. The SDBs seem to be hardier than TBs as part of the heritage of those is mountain I. pumila of Europe. Plicatas are a complex series including the pattern that we all recognize as plicata, luminats, glaciates (absence of color & what Chuck Chapman call enhanced anthrocyanin, purple which has the plicata gene in the background. These are dominant as in this photo of SDB 'Black Lightning'.

This explanation is posted as an aide for finding interesting things in your garden.

I don't know why the computer changes 'a' to 'e'. it does it in plant posts all the time. 'Moonlit Sea' is a famous historic luminata before the term was coined, which is why Keith Keppel named his plant 'Moonlit Water' in its honor.

Thank you Lucy for sharing your knowledge and insight with us. Very interesting.

Lucy, I think that Black Lightning is adorable! Do you know who sells it? Next year of course, it's too late here now.

The iris sisters have it and they are still shipping.

Too late here Rob, I'd have to pot it up and keep in inside all winter. Supposed to start getting really cold here in a while.

Glo-Ray looked great in the pictures I've seen... Probably should add that one to my wish list.

Schreiner's definition of Luminatas made sense to me, but apparently isn't completely accurate.
"An Iris whose style arms and hafts are white or yellow, and with veining on falls."

But the more technical definition from World Iris is more like what Kent wrote.
http://www.worldiris.com/publi...
"Luminata is a genetically reproducible anthocyanin pattern having its color present in an irregular marbling in the central areas of the petals and absent in the peripheral areas. The marbling effect is produced by non-anthocyanin veining (white or yellow), and there is no anthocyanin in the hafts, the stylearms or the beard."

Kent, I'll have to look through my pictures and see if I can make sense from these definitions..
But offhand, I think Arctic Burst and Starship Enterprise were ones I questioned as being possibilities before.. but I see Starship Enterprise has color all around the falls, which would eliminate it. It is also listed as Emma Cook flower pattern... Now can someone explain what that is to me?

Chuck Chapman does & he ships from Canada & I think Superstition garden still has it.

My Generation is one that looked like it should be listed as a luminata but the style arms are purple...so maybe that's an important factor.

Here are some garden photos of Glo-Ray Hallelujah. I took lots of photos because it had a lot of blooms and was really beautiful.

If you look at the "new" iris from the time the definitions were put in place....and then look at the "new" iris now....you can see why the exact definitions of color pattern are so hard to apply ! They have come a long, long way ! That's why I only have two categories.....the ones I like....and the ones I REALLY like ........................... Arlyn

I have three categories, The ones I have, the ones I don't have, and the ones I want!

Tom,

By definition; the ones you want are part of the ones you don't have. They are a sub set of the ones you don't have; so you really only have TWO categories.

my 2 cents worth.

Henhouse said:

Kent, I'll have to look through my pictures and see if I can make sense from these definitions..
But offhand, I think Arctic Burst and Starship Enterprise were ones I questioned as being possibilities before.. but I see Starship Enterprise has color all around the falls, which would eliminate it. It is also listed as Emma Cook flower pattern... Now can someone explain what that is to me? :confused:

Tall Bearded Iris (Iris 'Arctic Burst') is an example of a relatively new pattern. I don't believe there is any consensus on what to call it, but Joe Ghio refers to it as the Line & Speckles pattern so that's how we chose to list it in the database. It can always be changed later if a consensus develops.

Tall Bearded Iris (Iris 'Starship Enterprise') is an example of the Emma Cook pattern. Unfortunately, its parentage is too long to fit in the parentage field so it's down in the comments section, but if you look at the parentage 'Emma Cook' is actually there, along with 'Whole Cloth' which played a very important role in the breeding of Amoenas and Emma Cook type iris.

We had a long discussion about Plicatas and the Emma Cook pattern back in the spring:

The thread "Favorite Plicatas" in Irises forum

It's a gross oversimplification, but iris can be split into Plicatas and non-plicatas. Luminatas, Glaciatas, and the Broken pattern are derived from Plicata breeding. The other patterns (more or less, the Line & Speckles pattern has some plicata heritage behind it) are derived from non-plicata breeding. The Emma Cook pattern came out of Amoena breeding lines.

OK, I have two categories, and one sub category!

I wouldn't doubt that there are other patternds that will emerge in time, and then there's the possiblity that some of them may have more then one pattern expressed at the same time, that should make things confusing.

'Emma Cook' pattern was named after one of the first irises with the pattern (dark rim around the falls'. I have not studied it but wonder if it is related to plicata. Irises have wonderful variations except so far -the fire engine red.

... so far.

And when they achieve it I will buy it! And to stay on the theme of this thread - can you imagine a fire engine red luminata? That would stand out for miles!