Zuzu stated: My Rainbow Niagara is easily 7-8 feet tall. Incidentaly, it might be a new name for the Tropical Sunrise that was being discussed recently in another thread in this forum. Pink Enchantment is the new name for Souvenir de Baden-Baden, and it also grows quite big. Not as tall as Rainbow Niagara, but still about 5 feet tall and 4-5 feet wide. Paradise is no slouch either. It's about 4-5 feet tall and 4 feet wide.
Surprise, surprise, surprise! I guess will have to adjust my garden layout map plans. It certainly is easier to make a change on paper rather than having to transplant years later. Thank goodness pencils have erasers. And a bigger thanks to Zuzu for pointing out these dimensions to me.
Is staking or some kind of other suppport necessary for either of these roses?

No, I don't think so. Rainbow Niagara has deliciously fat canes that stand straight up. The rest are held in place by virtue of the width being almost the same as the height.

Pirouette will need some kind of support, I'm sure. I'll be growing mine below a wooden deck and it will use the deck railing for support. It probably would make a good pillar rose, too, because it's rather short for a climber.

Margie ...

The roses still may need to go to the back of the bed, but they may not grow as large for you as they do in Zuzu's garden. Zuzu gardens in Rose Heaven and does not have any significant winter.

Both are beautiful roses.

Smiles,
Lyn

They may not grow as large, but they're still going to be taller than the others.

Yup. That's why I said they still belonged at the back of the border. Now, since she's still shopping, she may have room for another rose ...

Smiles,
Lyn

I was sitting here contemplating as where to place Rainbow Niagara aka Tropical Sunset. I think I should take advantage of my elevated deck which is 30 feet in length. At each far end of the deck I have 2 small John Cabot climber's. And in the central section, several own root HT and floribunda roses of which most are one single cane with holly bushes in between. I think I will remove most of these HT & Floribunda's. Many times I have declined purchasing a particular rose because of it height. As for Pink Enchantment it will go in the back border. Come this Spring, I plan on adding a thick wooden stake in close vicinity of any rose with a maturity height of more than 3 feet. I did not secure Eliza in this manner last yr. and now I have to add a thick stake at a 45 degree angle to avoid hitting the roots. Keep in mind we have a shorter growing season here and must be prepared for possible nor'easters, hurricanes, as well as, blizzards all accompanied by high gusting winds.

Gertrude Jekyll considered horse manure a magic benefit to roses - give it a try!
Porkpal - I'll tell you if I notice a difference. I can't recall for sure, but, I think someone at Palatine's told me they placed a shovelful of the manure at the base of each rose bush in the Fall???

http://dovegreyreader.typepad....

Margie ...

Horse poo is great for roses. Be sure to water the roses well the day before you apply the manure and then water it in well on the day of application. It contains a lot of salts, but they get leached through with the watering and don't harm the plant and there is less chance of fertilizer burn.

I have friends that have used both fresh and aged horse poo. It's effective either way, but aged is more often recommended so that there is less chance of fertilizer burn.

Kim, my rose mentor, used it generally throughout his large garden in Socal during the growing season. Putting down plant food of any kind in fall encourages new growth that will be tender and nipped by your cold winter temps. I'd suggest you save it for later.

It does take time and heat to break down into a form that the plant can utilize, but the benefits can be incredible.

Putting it down after the roses have gone dormant in your zone, won't hurt as the temps are cold enough to slow down the decomposition of the poo, but it will be ready when the plants start to wake up in spring. (But you may not want to be out in the garden at that time of year, so it's OK to wait until spring.)

It's almost useless to put it into the planting hole. The roses anchor roots are the roots down deep in the hole and the feeder roots of a rose are closer to the surface, so that is where it is more readily available to the plant for nourishment. It can also be harmful to the roots of a plant as it releases methane gas as it decomposes. Putting it on top is the best way to get the most benefit.

Smiles,
Lyn

Lyn, thanks for keeping me on track.
Today, I reviewed and enlarged the layout of Gertrude Jekyll's garden design on the following link:
http://dovegreyreader.typepad....
I thought I would give you a tiny peek into a few of the irises that she grew in her garden. I have them my garden. Check out the years noted in the photos.

Sorry, the year on Mme. Chereau should read 1844

Margie ........

Those are beautiful. Thanks for the link.

I have a few irises that I am thinking of removing from the garden. I sited them wrong when I moved them down from the top of the slope. I thought they were dwarf irises because they never grew more than 10" tall and placed them at the front of the beds. Once I got them down where they were happier they really surprised me by becoming tall bearded irises.

I know I don't want them where they are currently sited, but I don't know where else to put them. In my garden, they are on the endangered list.

Smiles,
Lyn

Tomorrow I have to plant some iris seeds from a cross I made this summer.

We are getting a bit of rain and I took some time off from stacking wood to take a few photos before the blooms were damaged by the rain.

I didn't get much of a fall flush this year because of the drought. I deliberately pushed my roses into summer dormancy and the high temps stuck around until late September. We did get two days of rain and I think that's why I have any roses blooming in my garden. With the dry soil deep down, no matter how well mulched the plants were, the water I applied was virtually sucked down to the dry deeper soil levels.

Most of my roses didn't really give me a fall flush.

I was so happy to see some un-crispy blooms, I wanted to share:

Ralph's Creeper



Cupcake



Fabulous !



Kardinal 85



Pink Poodle



Purple Buttons



Sequioa Gold



White Surprise



It's time to do inside chores. I'll add photos to the database later.

Smiles,
Lyn

Great photos, Lyn.

Beautiful un-crispy blooms!

Pure bliss ....

Now, back to wood.

Smiles,
Lyn

I'm in Tyler, at the ARS National Fall convention. Wish you all were here with me! Lyn, I was thinking about you when Dr. David Byrne was showing slides about marking traits from roses, talking about pedigree analysis from Dr. Moore and other greats. I went to MIke Shoup's talk on OGR and bought his new book. Very enjoyable! Zuzu, he showed a slide of a Mermaid rose covering a structure that was almost as big as yours. I think yours would have been a better example to include in his book.
The Tyler Rose Garden is not in great shape. I think the spring freeze and the unusually wet summer caught them by surprise. The Austin roses definitely looked the best, which is the opposite of what I saw in San Diego and at the Biltmore.

Cindy ....

Thanks for sharing. I've read several of Dr. Byrne's research articles. It's wonderful to read his work and compare it to what Mr. Moore said on the same topic. We all bring our own experiences to roses.

I never wanted to be a breeder of roses, but I certainly enjoyed the conversations between Kim and Mr. Moore. It would have been fun to add Dr. Byrne to the mix.

Smiles,
Lyn

When I was taking a break outside, I saw splotches of color on the roses ... I don't wear my glasses outside .. ... and thought, "The roses made it through three months of triple digit temps and are going into winter healthier than I thought they would." These aren't great photos, but they will give you a sense of what I was seeing.

I only took photos of part of the house pad garden because I have wood rounds that need to be split on the other side of the garden. Even with the wood mess, I felt good about the roses surviving pretty well in this summer of drought.

No close ups because we had enough rain to spoil the blooms, but there is color in the back yard ....

Kardinal lost a lot of foliage due to water stress, but it is putting out blooms.



I didn't water the junipers all summer. This is the fir tree that I saved by drip watering for weeks.



A couple of shots of the roses and the slope:





There are no frosts predicted, so I may end up with even more blooms.

Smiles,
Lyn