Sempervivum and Jovibarba forum: Vignettes by Kevin Vaughn

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Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 15, 2014 3:49 PM CST

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JungleShadows said:Chris,
There are some "sissies" that can't take the cold but you are lucky the snow arrived first to cover the plants. That will definitely help. Here we went from lush warm rains to WINTER in a heartbeat and record cold with NO protection. It has been an education as to which ones do well and which ones look damaged. Was pleased that most of my lines are pretty healthy. However, things derived from 'Commander Hay' or that line are almost always damaged.
Maybe these sort of conditions are good for us every now and then so that only the hardiest plants are preserved and used as parents for the next generation.

Weirdly in the seedling rows it just seems to be the one or two that is affected whereas the other seedlings all look fine. The ones that are affected went BLACK and are just MUSH now. I pulled most of them out as I don't want those in my gene pool even if they recover. I don't need a yard full of wimps!
Some of our semps do come from the lower areas near the Mediterranean and those seem to be sensitive (like the parents of 'Commander Hay'). However, these genes seem to be floating through other populations. Admittedly this has been a WEIRD year here. The plants were very lush after a warm and wet October and then BOOM right to the Arctic. I don't want to see that ever again.
Oddly enough Lynn I have several hundred seedlings from 'Lilac Time' and they all look fine. Most of them are from crosses to 'Jungle Shadows' and that is one that shows no winter damage. Maybe that's a clue for me in further crosses: use only the rock hardy and you won't be sorry! I love the shape and color application in 'Lilac Time' and would like to see that in other colors. You'll see in the spring if I was successful.
Was a pretty day here yesterday and got a lot of work done in the yard. I'm not quite ready for spring but close

Kevin



[Last edited by valleylynn - Oct 15, 2014 3:52 PM (+)]
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Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 15, 2014 3:58 PM CST

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JungleShadows said:Wish the yellow heuffs were better growers. 'Orange Tip' does the best of them for me.
I'm getting more and more enamored with the heuffs too. They are such neat plants and make such pretty clumps. Bill Nixon had recommended 'Nannette' as one of his best. At first I wasn't that impressed but it has matured into a nice plant. It has sort of a pinkish glow to it right now. I had rather large groups of seedlings from 'Torrid Zone' and 'Blaze' and both gave interesting segregations of seedlings, big and small, squatty and tall, and all shades from green to dark maroon-purple. My favorite is a squatty maroon that is a complete self and with just lovely form.

Kevin



http://sempervivum-liste.de/Jovibarba/Orange%20Tip
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 15, 2014 4:05 PM CST

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JungleShadows said:I have made a lot of 'Lilac Time' crosses with 'Jungle Shadows' and the seedlings are about 50:50 purples: silvers/ pink tinged green. My favorites are the the ones with 'Jungle Shadows' colors and 'Lilac Time' form but there are also some cool green/ red bicolors and some in an odd shade between pink and purple.

Kevin


X
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 15, 2014 4:16 PM CST

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JungleShadows said:Greg,
the monstrose form of Fame is quite distinct but not very permanent. I have had it pop up in a clump of the normal 'Fame' too so watch out for it.


'Just Plain Crazy' should be a mat of rosettes like 'Fuzzy Wuzzy' if it's the real deal. I have several gorgeous fasciate 'Denise's Cobweb' and I'm sure that's the culprit for all the instabilities in these two plants. The other side of the pedigree just makes nice normal rosettes.



Kevin

Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 15, 2014 4:17 PM CST

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JungleShadows said:Greg,
Bill Nixon started the Sempervivum Fanciers Association that grew out of a round robin that Ed Skrocki, Helen Payne, Sandy MacPherson, Gary Gossset, Pat Drown, Mina Colvin, Bill and I were in. Bill needed a new term because Peter Mitchell had already started the Sempervivum Society.

Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 15, 2014 4:19 PM CST

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JungleShadows said:Greg,
Colors are coming on so many semps and my 'Positively Glowing' is starting to show the GLOW. This one is an AMAZING one, I think my best. Thank you 'Killer' for being such a great parent.

Kevin


Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 15, 2014 4:21 PM CST

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JungleShadows said: 'Flasher' is one of my favorites from my early days of hybridizing. Such brilliant colors. I remember when Bill Lachman, the famous hosta and daylily breeder, saw it, he was just astounded. Helen loved it too.

Kevin

Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 15, 2014 4:25 PM CST

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Speaking of S. 'Grunrand' and 'Junimond'.

JungleShadows said:'Junimond' is as miserable a grower too! It is a pretty semp but VERY slow.
Kevin



Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 15, 2014 4:31 PM CST

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JungleShadows said: When we did the Dalton project we found that 'Aymon Correvon' = 'Purdy''s 90-1'= 'Engle's 13-2'. Helen thought she saw some subtle differences between the three and the other two could have been seedlings of 'Aymon Correvon' as both Purdy and Engle obtained stock from Correvon or Sanford (who imported all of the Correvon plants). I tried for years to get seed from these plants but not a one on either 'Purtdy's 90-1' or 'Engle's 13-2'. My clump of 'Aymon Correvon' should have some blooming plants this year to try yet again.

Kevin



Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 15, 2014 4:33 PM CST

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JungleShadows said:'Packardian' will get that large most seasons; it was one of Ed Skrocki's favorites and he named it for his other passion: Packard automobiles. 'Jolly Green Giant' I've seen at 8". Several of the seedlings that I rowed out for a second look are huge too, at least 8". These are crosses of largest ones X dark purples so they are more "works in progress". I'm going to use them in crosses to try and get the best colors combined with that huge size. One can only think of the popularity of the huge Echevarias to see what semps in this size range would do to popularize them more with the general public.

Kevin


Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 15, 2014 4:35 PM CST

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JungleShadows said:I was admiring the dark centered one yesterday when I thought 'Heart of Darkness' as the name! I REALLY like that name, even though it has a bit sinister connotation. It is a beauty. Thank you 'Killer' for giving such amazing seedlings. I hope the pieces of those 'Killer' seedlings that I distributed will be magic for those of you who got pieces to use.
Kevin


@JungleShadows Kevin, we don't have a photo of this one. Do you have one to post?
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 15, 2014 4:39 PM CST

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JungleShadows said:The soil in my major semp beds drains so freely that I give the semps at least a 1/2" of water/ week. My well water is very cold (4C or 40F) so i'm betting the semps think they're in the Alps! remember they are succulents but not DESERT succulents. Of course in OR we have mostly cool nights so there is less problem with rot than in more humid sections of the country.
The baby seedlings get more than that plus every other week I treat them with an aqueous fertilizer. That really kicks up the growth on them so they mature in one season. The seedlings that were rowed out in late April are in some cases 3/4" across already, some even bigger.

Kevin

JungleShadows said:Connie,
What I use on the Semp seedlings is Quick Start by Miracle-Gro . It is 4-12-4 and you just mix one capful into a gallon of water. You then drench the plants with this once every two weeks. Really starts the babies off with a BANG. stop doing this in early September so the plants can harden off for winter. I use the same on established plants but much less often. I use it on my iris seedlings with similar fantastic results. Many others have started using it after seeing my results. I got 100% bloom on the iris seedlings the first year by using it.

Kevin


Thumb of 2014-10-15/valleylynn/877634

Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 15, 2014 4:44 PM CST

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JungleShadows said:Greg,
sometimes the hormonal induction that induces flowering in the main rosette causes the offsets to flower as well. Disturbing or transplanting can induce it as well. The first batch of plants that I received from Fernwood were stressed from having set in customs for 3 weeks and many of these went right to bloom. Of course for me, that meant I could use them in crosses right away! Every cloud has a silver lining!
Kevin

Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 15, 2014 4:46 PM CST

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JungleShadows said: Mark, I've never used 'Edge of Night' in crosses but its parent 'Jungle Shadows' is the basis of a lot of my breeding. It gives good large rosettes in a variety of colors. The cross of it with 'Killer' gave just amazing seedlings. Ask Lynn!
Kevin

Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 15, 2014 4:49 PM CST

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JungleShadows said:Julia,

You grow 'Bedazzled' well! It is a seedling of 'Lavender and Old Lace' and it with 'Risque' were the two that I saved out of ~100 from that group. They were both better than mom.
The center rosette is blooming so you can do some crosses with it. It should give good seedlings.
I wouldn't do that cross as 'Purple Passion' is not too colorfast. Most of your seedlings will fade too. No wants to look at faded rosettes! I would cross it to your colorfast purples and reds. That should give much better results. The other direction I would use it is with cobwebs as it would be cool to have a strong lavender cobweb. You can name the best seedling as 'Kevin's Great Advice'!!

Do those sound like possibilities Julia?
Kevin



http://sempervivum-liste.de/Sempervivum/Risque
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 15, 2014 4:52 PM CST

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JungleShadows said:Generally the last blooms of the cobwebs do overlap the first blossoms of other cultivars. That's when I do my crosses. Some of the hybrid cobwebs like 'Kramer's Spinrad' bloom a bit later. The seedlings I raised from it were VERY good.
Go buy some paper bags to use as covers! The neighbors will think you've lost it as you're out there putting lunch bags on the semp stalks and mine actually ASKED "What is this about?". It does look a bit strange. The other plan would be to put a bunch of cobweb stalks around 'Bedazzled' and just see what happens.
Kevin

Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 15, 2014 4:56 PM CST

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JungleShadows said:Pia,
'Frost and Flame' and 'Blue Boy' are still the bluest for me in my garden although the bluest color comes after the main flush of color that you see in the majority of semps. Last year I crossed the two of them with 'Pacific Blue Ice' and there are several hundred seedlings from these crosses that are maturing now. Hopefully those will be bluer yet. Several of them are already showing blue tints and some have very different tip colors that might be neat too. I like the idea of red tips on a blue semp, don't you?
Kevin



Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 15, 2014 5:04 PM CST

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JungleShadows said:Marilyn, No I'm SERIOUS. I've used old panty hose or muslin bags to protect crosses in MA. Works like a charm. In OR it is very dry in July so I can use paper bags to cover the crosses. When the seed stalk is ripe but before the seed heads dehisce I cut the stalk and let it complete drying in a paper bag in a cool dry place. Then you just crush the bag gently and all the seeds are retained in the bag. Just decant the contents onto some clean paper and store in glassine envelopes until planting time.
Hair net would let the seeds come right through!
Kevin




Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 15, 2014 5:10 PM CST

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JungleShadows said:Wanted to report that the really dramatically white tipped seedling from 'Sandy's Silver Crest' sedum is still really tipped. One of the sister seedlings has much more pink tips, which is a pretty effect too. Most are plain green with nothing too interesting going on, which makes me wonder if the plant is chimeral or is heterozygous for this white tipped condition. That might explain why it occurs more spasmodically. So far none of the seedlings has crested but generally that occurs after the plant is established. That used to drive Helen CRAZY as of course she wanted to send out plants that looked just like the photos in her book: crested and white tipped. Am sure glad that Polly had retained this and shared it with others in MA; I don't know any dealer who lists it. Hopefully I'l have the new and improved version on the market soon too. Am excited about some other sedum seedlings too. Think there's still much to be done with them and so many interesting species.

Kevin


@JungleShadows Kevin have you named this new sedum seedling yet? What a huge improvement over 'Sandy's Silver Crest'.
Thumb of 2014-10-15/valleylynn/43a1b6

Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 15, 2014 5:12 PM CST

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JungleShadows said:Lynn,
I know this was discussed several pages ago but i can tell you that 'Atroviolaceum' was NOT hybridized by Mina Colvin. This was one that was found way back in Correvon's or Sanford's collection. the Heimlich form was from Heimlich's Nursery in Woburn MA, probably some time in the early 60's. Mina's first two introductions were 'Raspberry Ice' and 'Silver Thaw'.
It is unfortunate that there were so many things with the 'Atroviolaceum' tag. It would have been better to call the Heimlich plant just 'Heimlich'. The two look quite different.
All of these should be pure tectorums so the one with pubescence sounds like a hybrid with montanum, not a pure tectorum.
OK my two cents!
Kevin

valleylynn said:
valleylynn said:Two out of the three have no information on who the breeder was. But all three have been around for quite awhile.
Greg is correct about the 'Atroviolaceum Pubescent'. It would have a somewhat fuzzy/velvety leaf texture.
You can't really see it in this photo.

The photos at SMG shows the pubescents clearly when you click on the photo to enlarge it. http://www.smgsucculents.com/sempervivum%20atroviolaceum%20%...

This one is quite colorful, breeder unknown

This is the that seems to be credited to Mina Colvin (now showing as breeder unknow in our database). It has some beautiful color changes through the growing season, as you can see from the photos on sempervivum-liste.de

http://sempervivum-liste.de/Sempervivum/Atroviolaceum%20Heim...

JungleShadows said:Lynn,
Yeah NONE of the 'Atroviolaceum's if they are true selections of tectorum should be velvet.
The second one looks NOTHING like 'Atroviolaceum'.
The plant from Mina Colvin looks like the real McCoy but it is definitely NOT her hybrid. The Heimlich form is smaller and has narrower more abundant leaves.
The picture of Atroviolaceum Heimlich in Helen's book is very close to perfect. It shows the very distinct narrower leaves and multi-leaved rosette. The picture of Atroviolaceum itself must have been taken after the spring flush of purple. The real Atroviolaceum should look like a paler version of 'Dark Cloud' when at its best color.
Kevin

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