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Nov 17, 2014 9:31 AM CST
Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Bromeliad Vegetable Grower Region: United States of America Tropicals Plumerias Orchids
Region: Mississippi Master Gardener: Mississippi Hummingbirder Cat Lover Composter Seller of Garden Stuff
I just don't know, Sandy. One factor, and this is only a guess on my part, may be the fans that run from 9:00 AM till 4:00 PM (winter run-times). The solar blanket material is supposed to increase the heat within an enclosure, not decrease it. This material transmits plenty of light as evidenced by the growth of all the different tropical plants in the greenhouses.
drdawg (Dr. Kenneth Ramsey)

The reason it's so hard to lose weight when you get up in age is because your body and your fat have become good friends.
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Nov 17, 2014 9:53 AM CST
Name: Elaine
Sarasota, Fl
The one constant in life is change
Amaryllis Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Orchids Master Gardener: Florida Irises
Herbs Region: Florida Vegetable Grower Daylilies Birds Cat Lover
You're definitely going to have trouble using passive solar when your greenhouses only get 4hr. of sun per day, Ken. Your electric bills must be huge. Can you thin the oak tree branches so you get more sun?
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
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Nov 17, 2014 10:34 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Carol Texas
Central Texas (Zone 8b)
"Not all who wander are lost."
Bookworm Region: Texas Organic Gardener Hummingbirder Herbs Greenhouse
Garden Art Fruit Growers Dragonflies Composter Cactus and Succulents Gardens in Buckets
DYZXY thanks for posting pics of your tall zippered GH. It gives me an idea. We have three large plants in big pots on the west facing patio and no room in the 6 x8 GH. So we are running out every night when it freezes and covering them. I have a nice corner on that patio where they get protection from two sides. I may have enough left over from my solar pool cover to build a shorter but wider GH. That patio gets afternoon sun from the west and I could easy move the water jugs to the edge of the patio every afternoon to let them warm - as I like how you harness natural heat! (Even if it means schlepping water jugs every day!). And it would be easy to throw a blanket over the entire entourage when needed. Might build it with PVC that can be easily disabled at end of season. Well, when I say "I" that usually includes my husband Ed who is the "master implementer". My friends always say, "well, you have Ed"!
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My passion is painting but gardening is running a close second.
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Nov 17, 2014 11:26 AM CST
Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Bromeliad Vegetable Grower Region: United States of America Tropicals Plumerias Orchids
Region: Mississippi Master Gardener: Mississippi Hummingbirder Cat Lover Composter Seller of Garden Stuff
That idea will work very well. Here is what I built this fall to over-winter my potted plumeria and some of my hanging staghorn ferns. I built the frame out of 2x2" and used 16 mil solar blanket material for the covering. It is heated by a "base-board" electric heater, set at the lowest W possible. That heater kept the inside of this temporary greenhouse a toasty 70 F even when the garage itself was 40 F this morning. I used Velcro strips along the sides so that I can get into the greenhouse. That "door" just rolls up and Velcro strips were placed at the top to hold that rolled-up door open. There is one window that looks west, and that gives a good amount of light. If the garage door is open, light comes in from the south as well. I am not trying to keep my plumeria growing but wanted them to go dormant without disturbing their roots. I take the staghorns out of this greenhouse every week, and submerge them in the laundry-room sink filled with very diluted fertilizer.

Thumb of 2014-11-17/drdawg/ab2b09 Thumb of 2014-11-17/drdawg/736622
drdawg (Dr. Kenneth Ramsey)

The reason it's so hard to lose weight when you get up in age is because your body and your fat have become good friends.
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Nov 22, 2014 8:21 PM CST
Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
Give PEACE a chance!
Adeniums Cat Lover Garden Photography Region: California Houseplants Plays in the sandbox
Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Composter Cactus and Succulents Dragonflies Hummingbirder
I only have a small growcamp greenhouse, which I use for my orchids mostly. Like what others have said, it gets same temps as outside during winter and as hot as it can during summer, so I have the plastic foil flaps removed during summer, just the screen is in place.

For this winter, since reading this thread, I added some bubblewrap too and some mylar, but I have decided to just pull in my more sensitive orchids and in their place I put my succulents that can take the cold but not the rain, since our winter is oftentimes more with rain. I have now accepted the fact that when temps of 20's come in winter, I am just deluding myself my orchids will stand it. They get cold damage even while covered by my growcamp, so I just pulled most of them in. Thankfully my collection is not that much and can go to the our rooms facing the south window. Even in our mild winter conditions, I am just asking too much of my orchids, I think if I continue to keep them outdoors. The only orchids left inside the growcamp right now is my Zygopetalum and this noid Den that really likes being cold but dry. My tillandsias will remain inside the growcamp too, they handled the winter temps well as long as inside the growcamp. My Vanda coerulea, pleurothallids and cymbidiums, they can take the winter temps nicely here, so they stay out as well, or if I change my mind, there is still space inside the growcamp for them.

But I still want to research more of other ways of passive heating..thanks for the discussion about the water jugs..makes sense..I just need more sun! The city trees and our community trees are still fully leafed so sun is blocked a bit, it gets only a couple of hours south sun.

Anyways, I saw some youtube videos where they were using inverted clay pots with some metal inside and heating it up with tealights. I have not experimented with it yet. But it looks interesting to me. Maybe I can use sterno instead of tealights. Just for those nights that we do have a forecast in the 20's which often happens in January-February. For now we have only gotten down to 39F a few nights ago, so it is still okay.
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Nov 22, 2014 9:36 PM CST
Name: Elaine
Sarasota, Fl
The one constant in life is change
Amaryllis Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Orchids Master Gardener: Florida Irises
Herbs Region: Florida Vegetable Grower Daylilies Birds Cat Lover
I like the tealight idea a lot, Tarev. Don't know about you, but I have a small 'collection' of old candle stubs and more or less used up candles. I keep them around as hurricane supplies just in case. But a candle gives quite a bit of heat for a long time, and an inverted clay pot would also act as a bit of a heat sink. If I put a couple of warm water jugs beside the pot, I wonder how warm it would stay over night in one of my little shelf units. . . . An experiment is imminent Hurray!

And we have yet another night forecast to drop into the 40's this week, unbelievable! Usually these cold fronts stay north of us until at least January.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
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Nov 22, 2014 9:54 PM CST
Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
Give PEACE a chance!
Adeniums Cat Lover Garden Photography Region: California Houseplants Plays in the sandbox
Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Composter Cactus and Succulents Dragonflies Hummingbirder
I got this in my sandbox thread:

but have not personally tested it...looks good idea...especially if really in dire cold and power goes off..and clay pots..gardeners like us have that a lot! Big Grin
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Nov 23, 2014 10:43 AM CST
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
The WITWIT Badge I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Container Gardener Seed Starter
I hate watching videos, so I did a little looking around about the tea light idea and found this. What is interesting is the idea one of the commenters came up with. http://www.instructables.com/i...
Scroll down to the comment by ewbray on that page. His idea is to use an empty tuna can filled with solid shortening (melted, then re-solidified to remove air) and using birthday candles for wicks, instead of using tea lights. Says it works for a longer period of time.
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
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Nov 24, 2014 4:21 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
I notice that plans for cold frames almost always have the north wall, or usually three walls, made of an insulator like wood.

If almost all the solar rays come from the south, the other walls probably lose more heat through the day and night than they can absorb during the brief period when the sun shines on them.

Maybe a greenhouse would benefit from heat blankets on North, East and West walls during the winter.

Some book about winter gardening for markets and restaurants in Maine spoke well of "layers" for keeping winter crops warm enough.

The outer greenhouse walls (or outer hoop tunnel) were one layer.

small hoop tunnel inside the main greenhouse was a second layer.

Spun-woven row covers were a third layer.

Cloches under the row cover were a fourth layer (for example, for germination or hardening off).

I recall they got something like 5-15 degrees temperature difference from each layer. The differences were cumulative, and the inner layers protected the plants against drafts.

(Any draft or air leak was a huge heat loss.)
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Nov 24, 2014 4:49 PM CST
Name: woofie
NE WA (Zone 5a)
Charter ATP Member Garden Procrastinator Greenhouse Dragonflies Plays in the sandbox I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
The WITWIT Badge I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Dog Lover Enjoys or suffers cold winters Container Gardener Seed Starter
That's more or less what I've been doing, in a slightly less organized fashion. Getting rid of the drafts was a major improvement, too! My GH has a raised floor, so I finally lined it with 2" styrofoam sheets underneath. I have bubble wrap inside, and a solar pool cover outside. And when it gets really cold, I cover the flats (which are on heat mats) with bubble wrap covered with a blanket or towel. This has been an ongoing learning process, and each little addition, as needed, has made a major difference, between 5 to 10 degrees for each layer. Why, yes, I do have an impressive array of thermometers. Hilarious!
Confidence is that feeling you have right before you do something really stupid.
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Nov 24, 2014 4:53 PM CST
Name: Ken Ramsey
Vero Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Bromeliad Vegetable Grower Region: United States of America Tropicals Plumerias Orchids
Region: Mississippi Master Gardener: Mississippi Hummingbirder Cat Lover Composter Seller of Garden Stuff
Just today I finally wrapped the east, west, and roof of one of my greenhouses with a second layer of solar blanket material. A single piece, 12'x22' covered those areas. It will be interesting to see if I can tell the difference.
drdawg (Dr. Kenneth Ramsey)

The reason it's so hard to lose weight when you get up in age is because your body and your fat have become good friends.
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Nov 24, 2014 8:12 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
If I were building a new greenhouse I would definitely insulate at least the north wall. According to Eliot Coleman ("Four Seasons Gardening," among others), each layer of cover raises the environment to the next zone up... I'm not sure that's strictly true, but it's probably close.

Interestingly, in my hoophouse, which is covered with a layer of 3-mil plastic, I have lettuce, chard, spinach, broccoli, turnips, kohlrabi, mache, chives and parsley, covered with Reemay over fiberglass hoops inside the HH, and even though we've had 2 nights in a row with a temp of 8F, and many nights that went down to about 20F, everything is still doing fine. (We also haven't had a heck of a lot of sunshine to warm things up recently) So, while I definitely didn't get some of the things started nearly early enough, I consider this to be a total success... my goal was simply to be able to harvest a few things for a salad by Christmas, and I'm feeling pretty confident now that I'll at least come close to that. Then there will be a couple of months off, and sometime in February I'll be able to start planting a few things again. (at least this way I feel like I'm still gardening... Hilarious! )
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
Avatar for kcolegio4
Apr 5, 2020 2:39 PM CST
Name: Kelly Colegio

Hi all! I have had great success keeping my greenhouse plants alive here in Michigan cold springs using a method an elderly Mennonite lady told me. I take a large metal pot, mine is an old canner, put two or three three wick candles in it and pour water in it to go half way up the candles. When I wake up in the morning and check my greenhouse the candles are still burning and the house is warm and steamy. I have done this for the last seven years with success.
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Apr 5, 2020 7:36 PM CST
Name: Gina
Florida (Zone 9a)
Tropical plant collector 40 years
Aroids Region: Florida Tropicals
This is an old thread from 2014
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Apr 5, 2020 11:33 PM CST
Name: Frenchy
Falls Church, VA (Zone 7b)
Region: Ukraine Tender Perennials Container Gardener Dog Lover Houseplants Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Tomato Heads Hostas Tropicals Annuals Foliage Fan Aroids
kcolegio4 said:Hi all! I have had great success keeping my greenhouse plants alive here in Michigan cold springs using a method an elderly Mennonite lady told me. I take a large metal pot, mine is an old canner, put two or three three wick candles in it and pour water in it to go half way up the candles. When I wake up in the morning and check my greenhouse the candles are still burning and the house is warm and steamy. I have done this for the last seven years with success.


That's a great idea! Love the fact that it is very inexpensive and quite safe. Smiling
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Apr 6, 2020 5:49 AM CST
Name: Cinda
Indiana Zone 5b
Dances with Dirt
Beekeeper Bee Lover Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Cottage Gardener Herbs Wild Plant Hunter
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I too have used the candle method mine are sitting in a large pot of sand, it does work very well

when I don't have any spare candles I have used an oil lamp ,we have several around for power outages
..a balanced life is worth pursuit.
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Apr 6, 2020 5:54 AM CST
Name: Gina
Florida (Zone 9a)
Tropical plant collector 40 years
Aroids Region: Florida Tropicals
You can very easily heat small greenhouse structures with an oscillating electric space heater that has a thermostat and forced air
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Apr 6, 2020 8:47 AM CST
Name: Cinda
Indiana Zone 5b
Dances with Dirt
Beekeeper Bee Lover Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Cottage Gardener Herbs Wild Plant Hunter
Hummingbirder Butterflies Birds Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Organic Gardener Vegetable Grower
Well that works IF you have electricity Smiling
my small hobby house has neither electricity or water
mostly just extends the spring and fall seasons.
..a balanced life is worth pursuit.
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Apr 6, 2020 9:53 AM CST
Name: Gina
Florida (Zone 9a)
Tropical plant collector 40 years
Aroids Region: Florida Tropicals
Ahhh. I used to have to run an extension cord out there but it worked well for me.
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