Lilies forum: Looking for Lily pollen for hybridizing, here's a tip!

Views: 522, Replies: 18 » Jump to the end
Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
Vegetable Grower Garden Photography Hybridizer Spiders! Annuals Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
keithp2012
Jan 13, 2015 7:03 PM CST
Go to flower shops, cut lillies are sold for boquets year round you can use for Lily pollen.
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
Image
Roosterlorn
Jan 14, 2015 10:08 AM CST
I used to do this in my earliest almost pre- years of my 'lily life'--in the early 1980's or even earlier. I had become friends with the owners of two flower shops in town. I had it good; I could get pollen from some really nice ones back then and it was where I first learned I could freeze pollen. Unfortunately, it never worked for me because I had not yet learned that Asiatics and Trumpets don't cross and I was pretty much illiterate with the 'do's and don'ts' of pollination at the time.

Nowadays, however, the cut lilies in floral shops are specifically breed for greenhouse culture, without any regard for garden culture. Long term hardiness is not a concern whatsoever, because the bulbs of cut flowers are disposed of immediately after cutting so a new crop can be started. I'm afraid that if one were to use such pollen today, one would be breeding in more of a greenhouse type plant that might not fare well when grown in the ground outdoors.

Nevertheless, collecting pollen from flower shops can still be fun, and certainly worth a try. Just try and get pollen from a newly opened or partially opened bud for purity. I wish I did, but I just don't have the time to do that anymore.
Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
Image
Leftwood
Jan 14, 2015 10:05 PM CST
Roosterlorn said: Just try and get pollen from a newly opened or partially opened bud for purity.


Umm... do bees buzzing around in your florist Shops, Lorn? Kidding, of course, but I don't know where contamination would come from. Confused Maybe you mean "for freshness"?
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
Image
Roosterlorn
Jan 15, 2015 9:35 AM CST
Yes, Freshness. Much better description.

Of course, we could add 'purity' to somewhat lessor degree, because there could be cross contamination with other airborne lily pollen by the constant air movement for exhaust/removal of ethylene gasses in the coolers. Also, when arrangements for wedding and funerals are made up, the pollen is always snipped off unless requested not to, allowing for more airborne pollen than one might think.

SIDE NOTE: For readers that may not know, the development of ethylene gasses begins within hours after light pollination and fertilization has taken place--even with a couple grains of pollen. These gases signal the end of a flowers journey and purpose in life and maturation and death of the flower results. Even it's fragrance will change and become more pungent. These ethylene gasses are universal in affect, so the gas given of by a pollenated lily, for example, will have a similar affect on all the other flowers in the cooler, whether they are carnations or petunias or whatever, whether they are pollenated or not. It causes petal wilt, the yellowing and dropping of leaves. So good air circulation and exhaust is a 'must'.

One can demonstrate the affect of ethylene gasses with almost any un-ripened fruit at home. Place any un-ripened fruit like a rock hard avovado in a bag with an apple (which gives off a lot of ethylene gas) and it will ripen almost overnight. Placing peaches in a bowl of apples will cause them to turn to mush. Now, you'll see the reasoning and importance behind the storage of mixed raw fruits or mixed raw vegetables in those specially made storage bags that are porous and allow for the escape of those gases.

And 'freshness' is the key word, all the way around!

[Last edited by Roosterlorn - Jan 15, 2015 10:10 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #765677 (4)
Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
Image
Leftwood
Jan 15, 2015 11:38 AM CST
Roosterlorn said:SIDE NOTE: ....the development of ethylene gasses begins within hours after light pollination and fertilization has taken place--even with a couple grains of pollen. These gases signal the end of a flowers journey and purpose in life and maturation and death of the flower results.


Many (most?) people have probably already heard of this without putting two and two together; have you ever heard that removing the stamens from an Easter lily will make the flower last longer? Preventing fertilization by removing the pollen source prevents/delays ethylene production, so the flower's life is extended.
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
Image
dellac
Jan 15, 2015 3:02 PM CST
Hence the longevity of pollen-less lily blooms?
Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
Image
Leftwood
Jan 15, 2015 6:33 PM CST
dellac said:Hence the longevity of pollen-less lily blooms?


I haven't heard that pollen-less lilies have longer life. Does that seem to be true? Since most lilies are self infertile, would being pollen-less make a difference?

Now you have me second guessing myself: is L. longiflorum self fertile? I don't think so. Whistling So why would remove stamens be beneficial? But.... it is closely related to L. formosanum and L. philippinense, and they are self fertile, and perhaps possessing similar genes makes it "try" to fertilize itself in a more meaningful way, and somehow trigger more ethylene production that way (?). I dunno. Shrug!
Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
Vegetable Grower Garden Photography Hybridizer Spiders! Annuals Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
keithp2012
Jan 15, 2015 8:21 PM CST
Leftwood said:

I haven't heard that pollen-less lilies have longer life. Does that seem to be true? Since most lilies are self infertile, would being pollen-less make a difference?

Now you have me second guessing myself: is L. longiflorum self fertile? I don't think so. Whistling So why would remove stamens be beneficial? But.... it is closely related to L. formosanum and L. philippinense, and they are self fertile, and perhaps possessing similar genes makes it "try" to fertilize itself in a more meaningful way, and somehow trigger more ethylene production that way (?). I dunno. Shrug!


I have l longiflorum and removing pollen does extend flower bloom life, and it's not self fertile. Perhaps pollen on the plant must make it use energy to keep the pollen fresh like some nutrients flowing to it. Hence why picked pollen isn't viable for long unless frozen, it's alive.

I also have pollen less Lily flowers some were in bloom over 3 weeks!
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
Image
dellac
Jan 15, 2015 8:21 PM CST
From growing pollen-less varieties I can say they seem to last much longer. An individual flower seems to hang around two weeks or more without getting 'old'. But I haven't taken down actual dates, so.... Yellow Cocotte and Spring Pink don't seem to accept any pollen. Nothing I've tried works and the female parts are often composed of 4 or 5 carpels rather than 3. Even after the tepals finally fall (or hang on after becoming dry), the ovary - sometimes even the whole pistil - instead of shrivelling, remains green and firm. Confused

Edit: Keith, I wouldn't be at all surprised if mine were lasting 3 weeks too - I just never keep track of time so I couldn't trust myself to say it was that long!
[Last edited by dellac - Jan 15, 2015 8:30 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #766137 (9)
Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
Vegetable Grower Garden Photography Hybridizer Spiders! Annuals Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
keithp2012
Jan 15, 2015 8:41 PM CST
If someone pollinated a pollen less Lily with pollen from another what are the chances the offspring will or will not have pollen?
Name: Tracey
Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Tomato Heads Pollen collector Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Cat Lover
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Garden Photography Seed Starter Region: Wisconsin
Image
magnolialover
Jan 16, 2015 7:55 AM CST

Moderator

I would like to say am not sure Keith, but one of these days I should have offspring blooming that would give you an idea. I will also add, sometimes you can try to predict what you might get as offspring given two parents, with protected crosses, but many times there are surprises you don't expect. Being that I am not a geneticist, I have no concrete idea, only what I would be hopeful for, based on the parents.
Tracey
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
Image
Roosterlorn
Jan 16, 2015 10:37 AM CST
Yes, the real proof is in the pudding--the only 'real' way to find out is to try it and see what you get. But here's my little theory. All parts of a native Species flower have evolved over millions of years for a natural purpose in life. Each part has a single purpose to perform a function crucial to a plants natural life cycle from birth to death. I think of those essential parts as being generally dominant. Since pollen is essential to the normal process of reproduction, it would follow then, that it could and should be easily bred back in. The same for fragrance and so on. But life isn't always that easy. Today commercial hybrids are very complex and far removed from a first time cross to a Species, and, they are full of surprises!!!
Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
Image
Leftwood
Jan 16, 2015 10:03 PM CST
keithp2012 said:If someone pollinated a pollen less Lily with pollen from another what are the chances the offspring will or will not have pollen?


This question should be discussed in the hybridizing sticky (yes, I'm a presumptuous man), so I have inserted it there.

Name: Connie
Willamette Valley OR (Zone 8a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Region: Pacific Northwest Lilies Sempervivums Sedums
Pollen collector I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Image
pardalinum
Jan 16, 2015 10:04 PM CST

Moderator

Good idea, rick. Thanks!
Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Sages The WITWIT Badge Garden Photography Region: Minnesota Plant Identifier
Image
Leftwood
Jan 16, 2015 10:55 PM CST
Della, if you can take some empirical data of your pollen-less bloom longevity per cultivar, I'd be very interested. Thinking more now with the single cultivar that I grow, I'm pretty sure flowers do last longer, but maybe only twice as long. I'll have to record relevant data, too.

It's hard to believe more hybridizers aren't working with pollen-less lilies that last so long. One would think it would be highly sought after by florists. Here in Minnesota, it's a major project with hybridizer Tim Z. He is trying to breed the trait into larger flowers, so far with some success.
Name: della
hobart, tasmania
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Photo Contest Winner: 2015
Image
dellac
Jan 17, 2015 5:26 AM CST
Apart from one surviving seedling of my own, they're over for this season, but I'll be more alert to it next year. I took this pic today though; Spring Pink. The blooms are over but the ovaries look as though they may be swelling. Not so! They are like that from the start and stay that way. I tried with a half dozen pollens last year and got not a single seed.

Thumb of 2015-01-17/dellac/fcb625

I should add: out of nine, five of these ovaries have more than the normal three parts.

[Last edited by dellac - Jan 17, 2015 5:28 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #766895 (16)
Name: Lorn (Roosterlorn)
S.E Wisconsin (Zone 5b)
Lilies Seed Starter Pollen collector Bee Lover Region: Wisconsin
Image
Roosterlorn
Jan 17, 2015 6:28 AM CST
Leftwood said:Della, if you can take some empirical data of your [url=pollehttp://www.northstarlilysociety.com/n-less]pollehttp://www.northstarlilysociety.com/n-less[/url] bloom longevity per cultivar, I'd be very interested.

It's hard to believe more hybridizers aren't working with pollen-less lilies that last so long. One would think it would be highly sought after by florists. Here in Minnesota, it's a major project with hybridizer Tim Z. He is trying to breed the trait into larger flowers, so far with some success.


For those who haven't visited the North Star Lily Society website lately, you should. http://www.northstarlilysociety.com/ They have a new feature on their intro page: [ NEW FEATURE: Minnesota Hybridizers ] which list the biographies of some past and present well known Minnesota hybridizers, among them, Tim Zimmerman. Tim Zimmerman was mentored by Julius Wadekamper. My compliments to such a comprehensive and well organized website. Smiling



Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
Vegetable Grower Garden Photography Hybridizer Spiders! Annuals Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
keithp2012
Jan 17, 2015 11:19 AM CST
dellac said:Apart from one surviving seedling of my own, they're over for this season, but I'll be more alert to it next year. I took this pic today though; Spring Pink. The blooms are over but the ovaries look as though they may be swelling. Not so! They are like that from the start and stay that way. I tried with a half dozen pollens last year and got not a single seed.

Thumb of 2015-01-17/dellac/fcb625

I should add: out of nine, five of these ovaries have more than the normal three parts.



I've got asiatic 'delicate joy' and got 5 seeds viable from it im growing come spring. The pollen parent was this oriental Lily. http://www.fiftyflowers.com/product/Bicolor-Yellow-with-Red-...

Image
BUGGYCRAZY
Jan 22, 2015 9:46 PM CST
That "oriental" lily is an OT

« Garden.org Homepage
« Back to the top
« Forums List
« Lilies forum
You must first create a username and login before you can reply to this thread.

Today's site banner is by Paul2032 and is called "French Marigold"