Roses forum: Rose with red anthers!

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Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
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keithp2012
Jan 21, 2015 6:20 PM CST
Was reading a blog, someone grew a tiny Rose with red anthers! Wish I had that in my garden! http://sproulroses.blogspot.com/2011/04/two-better-2011-hult...
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
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porkpal
Jan 21, 2015 7:10 PM CST
Interesting!
Porkpal
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
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RoseBlush1
Jan 21, 2015 8:34 PM CST
Keith ...

There are a lot of roses with red anthers. I love them.

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
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keithp2012
Jan 21, 2015 8:48 PM CST
RoseBlush1 said:Keith ...

There are a lot of roses with red anthers. I love them.

Smiles,
Lyn


I never knew that, I thought all anthers are yellow. I've only owned two roses in my life so you can see why.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
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RoseBlush1
Jan 21, 2015 9:02 PM CST
Keith ... there are so many variations in roses. I think that's why we end up getting addicted to them.

Having red anthers on a hulthemia is unusual. In fact, Jim's success in breeding hulthemias is unusual. A lot of breeders before him have worked to develop a viable rose of that class, but few have succeeded.

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jan 22, 2015 8:38 AM CST
I had never even heard the term mentioned, so I had to google it.
Thought this was an interesting read.
http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/ezine.php?publicationID=...
Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
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keithp2012
Jan 22, 2015 10:26 AM CST
[quote="Seedfork"]I had never even heard the term mentioned, so I had to google it.
Thought this was an interesting read.
]http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/ezine.php?publicationID=...

Wow, so Hulthemias would be more like a donkey in relation to a horse, both in same family but not same species.
That's even more incredible I found the article on his progress, and that he seemingly did the impossible and was able to hybridize Hulthemias with roses to inherit the red petal blotches.

So now I'm confused as an earlier post in this thread by roseblush1 stated some roses have red anthers, but Hulthemias aren't really roses so do true roses have red anthers?
[Last edited by keithp2012 - Jan 22, 2015 10:26 AM (+)]
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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Jan 22, 2015 11:34 AM CST

Moderator

It's not as incredible as it seems. Hulthemia is not a separate genus. Sproul's article is dated. The plants formerly defined as species of Hulthemia were reclassified as Rosa persica long ago, probably on the basis of DNA tests.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jan 22, 2015 12:00 PM CST
Thanks Zuzu,
I read that in another article and should have mentioned it.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jan 22, 2015 12:11 PM CST
Anyone have a source for a list of roses with red anthers?
Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
Vegetable Grower Garden Photography Hybridizer Spiders! Annuals Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
keithp2012
Jan 22, 2015 2:01 PM CST
Seedfork said:Anyone have a source for a list of roses with red anthers?


I would like to see this to. I've only found colored stamen list.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Jan 22, 2015 2:23 PM CST
Jack Harkness wrote about hulthmia persica in his book, Roses and said that this roses and other hybrids are a member of the sub-genera of roses, Simplicifoliae. H. persica was named in memory of a botanist of the Netherlands, Van Hulthem.

The species is a "native Iran and neighbouring areas of Afghanistan and Russia. H. persica was brought from Iran to France in about 1788. It has a rich assortment of names, as one botanist after another wondered what it was, and between them christened it as R. simplicfolia, R.berberifolia, Lowea berberfifolia, Hulthemia berberifoliaand finally Hulthmia persica . (page 29)

Here is a link for more references about the rose:
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.16815.2&tab=7&qn=0&...

Harkness intoduced three roses that can be classified as hulthemias to commerce, 'Euphrates', 'Tigris' and 'Nigel Hawthorne'. Ralph Moore was fascinated with hulthemias and his Halo series is a part of that breeding line as well as some of his other introductions.

Ralph was often quoted as saying breeders stand on the shoulders of the breeders who have gone before them. Ralph mentored Jim Sproul as well as several other breeders. Ralph loved sharing what he had learned through his experiments which bred many break-through roses.

The 'Eyeconic' series of roses being introduced in recent years is the result of one breeder carrying forward the work of another breeder.

Larry ... information about the color of stamens and anthers are rarely recorded in rose literature, but that information is included in the rose patents as part of the distinguishing characteristics of the roses along with a lot of other information not generally available.

I've worked with a lot of rose patents and have often seen information about roses with different colored anthers and stamens as part of the description of the reproductive parts of the plant being patented. I cannot think of one place where you can find a list of roses with these plant characteristics.

The rose 'Dainty Bess' is one that is well known and loved for it's red anthers:

Rose (Rosa 'Dainty Bess')

Just one example.

Smiles,
Lyn

I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
Vegetable Grower Garden Photography Hybridizer Spiders! Annuals Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
keithp2012
Jan 22, 2015 3:00 PM CST
Thank you for that information, and thanks for sharing that other Rose with red anthers.

This was the stamen list I had mentioned http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/roses/msg1121531916...
Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
Vegetable Grower Garden Photography Hybridizer Spiders! Annuals Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
keithp2012
Jan 22, 2015 3:11 PM CST
Do rosa persica (not the hybrids the wild species) grow in the States? Outside Iran can they grow?
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
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zuzu
Jan 22, 2015 3:17 PM CST

Moderator

The distribution information in the Catalogue of Life does not include the United States, but I'm sure they can be grown here if they're imported. They just don't grow here naturally.

http://www.catalogueoflife.org/col/details/species/id/202379...
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Jan 22, 2015 3:55 PM CST
Zuzu is right that they can be grown in the US. However, they require specific conditions to thrive. Harkness went into quite a bit of detail on how to grow them successfully outside of their natural habitat.

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Jan 23, 2015 9:38 PM CST

Moderator

This new peony photo in the database reminded me of this discussion. Doesn't it look like a double hulthemia hybrid?

Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Jan 23, 2015 10:09 PM CST
Zuzu ...

What a pretty photo ... Smiling

It does have the "blotch" which is what breeders are seeking when they breed hulthemias.

Harkness wrote, "Presumably the red eye is a landing mark for insects, made to stand out in the bright light of its semi-desert home."

I wonder if that will be true for this peony.

Smiles,
Lyn
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Long Island, NY (Zone 6b)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Celebrating Gardening: 2015
MargieNY
Jan 24, 2015 1:36 AM CST
http://pushingtheroseenvelope.blogspot.com/2011/06/new-ameri...

Margie
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jan 24, 2015 8:27 AM CST
Thanks Margie,
That is really interesting reading! Lovely photos too, I saw a few I would love to have.

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