I had heard that a number of old, established seed companies over here had been bought out by Monsanto. Will have to do more research. Meanwhile, check out the organic seed companies - they can't be any more expensive.
Here's a link to one (I haven't tried them, but they do sell non-GMO seeds).
http://www.outsidepride.com/

I was just looking at the bulk seed prices here earlier today, but I don't think they are organic seeds. I think companies are just using that non-GMO seed tag to market seeds, I don't think many companies are selling GMO seeds to home gardeners, that may be a path I don't want to wander down again. But I did also see that when ordering three packs of seeds the shipping was free (I think it was this site). Oh, the 500-1000 seed pack prices were pretty good I thought.

I was just looking at this site too. Very interesting collection of seeds. Prices didn't look too bad either.

Seedfork said:I think companies are just using that non-GMO seed tag to market seeds, I don't think many companies are selling GMO seeds to home gardeners.

GMO seeds are not available to the home gardener & never have been, only very large farms that can do the regulatory paperwork. Seed companies that advertise 'non-GMO seed pledges' are just stating the obvious & pandering to the gullible seed buying public. Any seed vendors that make these kind of pledges might as well include a promise not to sell us Moon rocks as well, LOL!!!

I also had poor germination from some Burpee's bean seeds that I bought locally last year. Henry Fields is still in business, I get their catalog and occasionally order from them, but they aren't one of my favorites. (I do sometimes get tempted by a good sale, though ) I mainly order from Pinetree, Johnny's, and Totally Tomatoes -- I've always had good germination from seeds from those companies, and mainly grow vegetables so they pretty much have everything I need.

I did order fro henry Fields this year, just two things cause there were only a couple places with them and HF was one of them. I think they were the only place that had BOTH and I didn't want to have to order one from here and one from there with the price of shipping.

Um, about GMO seeds not being available to the home gardener, they're certainly available to me and I go to great lengths not to buy or sell them. There are only 2 or 3 strains of non GMO sweet corn available, for example, and only one farm that has actually tested their seed for contamination. Golden Bantam is all I am sure about so that's all I sell.

Once GMO pollen has floated over your fence, some of your crops contain the patented genes. (This is how Monsanto sues organic farmers and puts them out of business.

It takes effort to avoid GMO's. If you don't trust Safe Seed Pledge companies like mine, buy seeds from SeedSaversExchange. But we're trying. Really. Heirloom seeds may not be perfect, but they haven't been tampered with (and they're way cheaper because no one owns the patent.)

I'll get off my soapbox now and go to bed.

Thanks for the heads-up! My seed orders have been arriving & I'm getting the planting bug!

SmartSeeds said:Um, about GMO seeds not being available to the home gardener, they're certainly available to me and I go to great lengths not to buy or sell them. There are only 2 or 3 strains of non GMO sweet corn available.

If you believe that, then I strongly suspect that you don't know the difference between a hybrid & a GMO.

While I'm not going to delve into the pros/cons, moral objections & controversy surrounding this new technology, there is one particular matter I would like to clear up for gardeners here: there are no GMO home vegetable seeds available now & there never have been.

GMO seeds are highly regulated. Farmers must sign agreements with the seed company & follow strict EPA regulations when planting GMO crops. It's a violation of the EPA's requirements to provide any genetically engineered seed to non-commercial growers.

The fact remains (even without EPA regulations), a seed company would never sell GMO seeds to home gardeners for use in their gardens for the simple reason that the unique genes inserted into the GMO cultivars would then be out of the control of the seed company & the value of the exclusive GMO cultivars would be lost to the company.

http://geneticliteracyproject....

I just received my Baker Creek Heirloom Seed Catalog, and it appears that both WR Ranch and SmartSeeds are correct, (according to the little article in the catalog). The problem appears to be that the GMO corn pollinates the non-GMO corn, once contaminated the corn becomes GMO corn, and can't be sold as non-GMO corn. It has not been the normal procedure to test corn, but it is becoming necessary, and when the corn is tested positive for GMO contamination more and more varieties can not be sold as non-GMO corn. Baker Creek used to carry 2 dozen varieties of heirloom corn, but now after testing they are down to half that number already and they just started testing in 2006. So yes I guess it is true that even though we don't think we are buying GMO corn, we very well could be. It seems as more testing is done, there will be few if any non-contaminated varieties. Obviously, paperwork does not prevent pollen from flying across fields.That's the best I could make of it anyhow.

I went in search of Zucchini seeds last year and was very disappointed since they were gone by the time I wanted to plant. So I ordered from Burpee and I did get plants but not as good or as plentiful on the fruit for some reason. I hope for better luck this year by ordering from another place. Has anyone had any luck on zucchini seeds heirloom and harvesting the seeds from them? I have had luck with the butternut plant harvesting of the seeds 2013 for last year and will attempt the same batch 2014 for this year. Happy to have a place to learn and share experiences.

Seedfork said:I just received my Baker Creek Heirloom Seed Catalog, and it appears that both WR Ranch and SmartSeeds are correct, (according to the little article in the catalog).

The primary point I was making was that GMO seed is not & never has been available to a home gardener. A secondary point is that many people don't know the difference between a hybrid & GMO cultivars. The propagation of misinformation (whether intentional or unintentional) is not helpful.

I was not addressing cross pollination issues at all (although corn pollen is heavy & doesn't travel very far, nor does it remain viable for extended periods). Anybody that has grown corn knows that certain varieties need to be planted at least 200' apart or sown at different times to avoid cross-pollination.

WRRanch said:

If you believe that, then I strongly suspect that you don't know the difference between a hybrid & a GMO.

My thought was also that there was confusion here between hybrids and GMO seeds.

@Smartseeds, forgive me if I misunderstood your post; it did sound as though you were talking about OP varieties being contaminated by hybrid varieties so they were no longer the true OP strain. Which can certainly happen, as can contamination by GMO plants, particularly if yours are near a farming operation that uses those.

I think most of us here grow at least some hybrid varieties... in my own case, I'm trying to grow more OP and heirloom types, but they don't always live up to my expectations, so I keep experimenting with them while continuing to grow some of my "old favorites" hybrids. At any rate, any time we save seeds when it's important to keep them "pure", it's also important to isolate the plants/blooms in some way (as I'm sure you know )

I thought she specifically stated that "Once GMO pollen has floated over your fence, some of your crops contain the patented genes". Further he states "It takes effort to avoid GMO's." Seeds have to be tested is what I took that to mean. What had me confused was the distinction between "home gardener" and "farmer". "Golden Bantam is all I am sure about so that's all I sell." That makes me think SmartSeeds in a commercial grower not what I would consider a home gardener.
Just the name "SmartSeeds" lead me to believe she was certainly aware of the difference in hybrids, and GMO's, and that it was an important issue with her. I can see that with all the paperwork and all the testing involved, there must be a great concern over this or none of that would even be necessary. Seeds are tested in "lots" for contamination from GMO's to the best of my understanding, and there are many "lots" it seems that do not pass the tests. I'll conclude by saying "$4 for a packet of lettuce seed?" Back on topic for my part anyhow.

Seedfork said:I thought he specifically stated that "Once GMO pollen has floated over your fence, some of your crops contain the patented genes". Further he states "It takes effort to avoid GMO's." .

Here is an article from Ohio State that discusses 'pollen drift' that may be of interest:

http://ohioline.osu.edu/agf-fa...

BTW, SmartSeeds is a she & is not a commercial farmer.

Larry, the part that made me wonder about whether this actually is a reference to hybrids or GMOs was

"There are only 2 or 3 strains of non GMO sweet corn available"

There are many hybrid varieties available that are not genetically modified.



(sorry if we've gone a bit off topic, but since the issue was raised I would like to see it clarified, because I believe there is a lot of confusion about what genetically modified actually means.)

Sandy, how about if I start a a new thread in a little bit that defines heirloom, hybrids & the different types of GMOs???

That way this thread can get back on track...

Great idea, Sam !

The new thread is here: The thread "Let's talk about the definition heirloom, hybrids & GMOs" in All Things Gardening forum

SmartSeeds webpage does offer an interesting collection of seeds. Although that might be easy in my case because it doesn't take much to tempt me. Anyway, if you want to check it out I got it off her ATP profile:
http://www.smartseedstore.com/...

Wow, beautiful photos!