Houseplants forum: Help with regards to a variegated form of a money tree

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UK Southeast
wisewords
Feb 13, 2015 5:33 PM CST
Hi everyone I would be grateful of some advice please.

Here is a photo of my relatives jade plant A, I offered to re-pot it as it did not look that well and had not been touched in years.

Thumb of 2015-02-13/wisewords/1d8c39


Thumb of 2015-02-13/wisewords/2723d0

I re-potted in cacti / succulent media supplied from the store to which I added some washed horticultural sand to make it a little more gritty. As the one I took out was like this which also had chalk in the bottom. Plant A is not doing very well at all my relative potted it up with some other media mix, so I am not sure how things will turn out as it's looking worse that it ever was. I was wondering what could be causing it and what would be the best way to propagate it in it's current form, so as to have a better chance of saving it. Should I get some rooting powder or gel to aid with it striking and what would be the method you would use?

Now for my jade plants.

I have use the same media on other variegated with a couple of issue B seems to be ok, C lost a lot of leaves I was wondering if it was to do with temperature, as it could have got close to 11 or 10 degree C. But the other jade plants seem to have been OK so I am just wondering if that was the cause to plant C. I have since moved plant C into another room that's at 16 degree C now and it seems to have stabilized. Plant C is a Portulacaria Afra. I have tried the leaf pull trick but it did not work no strikes, though no rooting hormone was used.

Will the plant regrow leaves from when it was lost at the node? How much sun should one of these plants have, direct or shady?

I look forward to hearing some advice.

Regards Noddy
[Last edited by wisewords - Feb 13, 2015 5:53 PM (+)]
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Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
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tarev
Feb 13, 2015 6:09 PM CST
Hello Noddy! Welcome to ATP Smiling I do not see plants A B or C?

Looking at the variegated Jade, it seems it is looking for more light. The media you have used is not bad. I just usually use the regular cacti soil and add some pumice or more perlite to really make it more fast draining. Jades can tolerate cold temps even up to 32F (0C) as long as kept dry and gets enough light. I grow mine outdoors year round since our winters are milder, no snow, just the erratic rains which is again missing in action here in our area.

In its current form, if you want you can cut just a few inches below each set of leaves, let it dry/callus a bit, then you can stick them again in another similar container with mix of cacti soil-pumice or perlite. It should be fine. In this case, put it in part sun to it can grow new roots. Give it time, it is active growing season now, it likes the cool temps. Some would dip it into some rooting hormone before they stick it in soil again, but I personally do not do that, it will grow the roots eventually. Or you can just leave it alone, maybe in your location it just wants to get a bit warmer, before it resumes growing again, or a little repositioning to a brighter area may help the plant a bit more. South, east or west facing windows will be okay.

Since I do not see plant A B or C, I cannot comment on it.. but typically jades and Portulacaria Afra behave the same when they grow new leaves..sometimes from the center of a rosette of leaves or at any point on each stem node.

Here are some photos:
This is my variegated jade, you can see new leaf growth may form at any available node:
Thumb of 2015-02-14/tarev/11ae97

Or at the center of an existing rosette:
Thumb of 2015-02-14/tarev/79a662

This is my Portulacaria Afra..behaves the same:
new leaves at any node
Thumb of 2015-02-14/tarev/c21cea

or right at center of existing cluster:
Thumb of 2015-02-14/tarev/c058b3

UK Southeast
wisewords
Feb 14, 2015 3:00 AM CST
Hi Tarev

Thank you for your response, the first plant I posted up was plant a my relatives plant that not doing so well. This plant get's a lot of light as it's South West facing. Which is why I found it rather odd.

Here is plant B

Thumb of 2015-02-14/wisewords/4978a6

Thumb of 2015-02-14/wisewords/979aec

As you can see from the 2nd photo it would appear that the plant is now producing new leaves from the the nodes.

However a leave pull did not work in this instance. Again this was near a South West facing window within inches and still the leaves dropped so I thought it could be temperature though it was watered, so may be the soil was not dry enough, for the temperature so now it's in a warmer room under an aquatic light, till we break into spring.

Plant C

Thumb of 2015-02-14/wisewords/a45bdb

Thumb of 2015-02-14/wisewords/a7868e

This was next to the B and another not A as that in another house. The leaves went crinkly then dropped off I lost a lot of leaves. So I moved it to the the same place as B under the aquatic light which is a warmer room and I've had not so many leaves drop off. I was wondering if there was a different, since I had an old green money tree, which was in the porch for many years, that took very low temperatures.

Wisewords
[Last edited by wisewords - Feb 14, 2015 3:16 AM (+)]
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Name: Kate
Holmes Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
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karmatree
Feb 14, 2015 7:34 AM CST
Crassula ovata, the Jade plant, and Portulacaria afra (aka African portulaca, dwarf jade) are different in some ways though....Portulacaria can survive hot hot hot once densely leaved and established (older leaves go into CAM synthesis for energy, which is common in hot desert plants) but the younger leaves on younger plants aren't as efficient. Portulacaria is tougher than the Crassula. Crassula cuttings also don't really produce or keep leaves until a good root system has been established.
"A garden isn't meant to be useful. It's for joy." - Rumer Godden
UK Southeast
wisewords
Feb 14, 2015 8:22 AM CST
Thanks Karmatree

Well from what I am experiencing it would appear to be the other way around as the Crassula Ovata has not lost any leave, couple little wrinkles, but did not loose as many leaves a the Portulacaria.

Regards

Wisewords
UK Southeast
wisewords
Feb 14, 2015 11:18 AM CST
Thanks Karmatree

Well from what I am experiencing it would appear to be the other way around as the Crassula Ovata has not lost any leave, couple little wrinkles, but did not loose as many leaves a the Portulacaria.

Regards

Wisewords
Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
Always count your blessings in life
Region: California Houseplants Plays in the sandbox Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Composter
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tarev
Feb 14, 2015 12:51 PM CST
wisewords said:Hi Tarev

Thank you for your response, the first plant I posted up was plant a my relatives plant that not doing so well. This plant get's a lot of light as it's South West facing. Which is why I found it rather odd.

Here is plant B

Thumb of 2015-02-14/wisewords/4978a6

Thumb of 2015-02-14/wisewords/979aec

As you can see from the 2nd photo it would appear that the plant is now producing new leaves from the the nodes.

However a leave pull did not work in this instance. Again this was near a South West facing window within inches and still the leaves dropped so I thought it could be temperature though it was watered, so may be the soil was not dry enough, for the temperature so now it's in a warmer room under an aquatic light, till we break into spring.

Plant C

Thumb of 2015-02-14/wisewords/a45bdb

Thumb of 2015-02-14/wisewords/a7868e

This was next to the B and another not A as that in another house. The leaves went crinkly then dropped off I lost a lot of leaves. So I moved it to the the same place as B under the aquatic light which is a warmer room and I've had not so many leaves drop off. I was wondering if there was a different, since I had an old green money tree, which was in the porch for many years, that took very low temperatures.

Wisewords


I am looking at the soil, and it seems that soil is too tightly packed. You would need to loosen that up a bit. Although these plants are drought tolerant, it needs the soil media to be not too tightly packed. I would pull that plant, examine the roots and see if it is still okay. At times leaves will tell you that they are dropping either they got too dry or too wet. You may be watering it, but nothing gets absorbed at root level. That is why I add either pumice or perlite, not sand on my containers. Sand has the tendency to harden and pack. My usual way of checking condition of the plant is, if temps are okay, sunlight is okay and plant still suffers, then something is wrong at the root level or in the timing of watering. Remove all those dried up leaves, clean it up..those will just invite more fungal rotting there.

I do not know where you are located, so plants adjust to their existing environment. These plants are really toughies outdoors in mild, no snow cool conditions, taking both direct sun and cooler temps, but the media has to be fast draining, without being too tightly packed.
Name: Kate
Holmes Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Not all those who wander are lost.
Bromeliad Cactus and Succulents Orchids Foliage Fan Organic Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader
Region: Florida Tropicals Xeriscape
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karmatree
Feb 14, 2015 2:21 PM CST
That sounds right about the soil... I agree
"A garden isn't meant to be useful. It's for joy." - Rumer Godden
UK Southeast
wisewords
Feb 14, 2015 5:01 PM CST
OK

The soil was loose I have broken it up even more, but you think I should take it all out and add perlite. What ratio am I looking at.

Plant B is sort of doing OK but plant C is the one that has had the most problems and yet the other normal money tree is sort of doing OK too.

The large plant we had at out old house had a rather hard media, as it was about 3ft round. Or is it only till the roots have take hold.

Do you require any more photo's as and if I un-pot it.

Regards

Wisewords
[Last edited by wisewords - Feb 14, 2015 5:09 PM (+)]
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Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
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tarev
Feb 14, 2015 5:13 PM CST
It would be nice to see how the roots look like. As for ratio, I just eyeball it really, as gritty coarse I can do it, since my plants are outdoors. Typically you would want to repot depending on the size of the root ball, so it is not getting too long to get dry as well. I prefer using shallow containers with drainage holes.

Sometimes too at this time of the year, the plant is starting to transition from winter to spring, depending on your location, so it will continue to drop lower leaves, and keep just enough. Then new leaves will begin to sprout. But till then, better make the media as porously well draining.
UK Southeast
wisewords
Feb 15, 2015 8:09 AM CST
Well here we go

Here is the amended media, I added perlite & some heavy sand, the mixed was as shown which I used for both.

Thumb of 2015-02-15/wisewords/65355c

Plant B as below

Thumb of 2015-02-15/wisewords/56dac5

Plant B root structure both sides.

Thumb of 2015-02-15/wisewords/a852aa
Thumb of 2015-02-15/wisewords/061cb6

Plant C as below

Thumb of 2015-02-15/wisewords/89e5ca

Plant C root structure both sides.

Thumb of 2015-02-15/wisewords/0485dd
Thumb of 2015-02-15/wisewords/ed67c8

I hope this gives a better idea. Any further advice welcome.


Can one get a leaf pull to start if dipped in hormone gel?

Regards

Wisewords







Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
Always count your blessings in life
Region: California Houseplants Plays in the sandbox Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Composter
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tarev
Feb 15, 2015 10:43 AM CST
Thanks for the photo update wiseswords. I do wish you did not add heavy sand there. Perlite will be enough to open the soil. Anyways you have added it already. Just observe later on if the soil packs up again too much, sand has the tendency to do that in the media.

Looking at all the photos, the plants look okay, typically they have really a small rootball, that is why next to the proper use of media, the container size follows, find the smallest container you can use. They take awhile to grow their roots. I see the plants have good stems, nothing seems rotting, and leaves still green where it should be, so it is okay as I see it.

Thanks for updating your location, now I understand why you have it indoors. Just continue repot and keep it near a south facing window, water till it comes out of the drainage holes, and set aside. Then leave it alone to recover from all the root disturbance.

Yes, you can get a leaf, twist it off so you get the petiole. I would just lightly dab the space where it come from with cinnamon. For the leaf you removed, rest it on top of new media, in part shade and eventually the leaf will either form new roots first or new leaves. The old leaf will continue to provide energy to the new growth and will eventually dry out. Just water lightly, not too often, it just needs very mild dampness.

Here's a sample of my jade leaf cutting that I have rooted in Jan 2013:
started indoors
Thumb of 2015-02-15/tarev/5ad06e

By late Feb 2013, I have brought it outdoors, and this was photo on April 2013, new little leaves forming at the petiole end:
Thumb of 2015-02-15/tarev/921062

It is now 2 years old, this photo last 07Jan2015, has been staying outdoors here since 2013, old leaf is gone now, and it is now a little plant with its own stem and set of leaves.
Thumb of 2015-02-15/tarev/3f8211

Hope that helps! Good luck!
UK Southeast
wisewords
Feb 15, 2015 11:15 AM CST
Hi tarev

Thanks for the info.

The media that I had before was lightly sandy, which seemed to be more peat based, I can make a fresh mix with perlite & just the sand from the original mix.
Yes I saw your comment after, as for the pot it's in a 3" pot for convenience at the moment. As I have lots in a small space and I have a nice little container that sit's snugly around it.

If you think this is best then I'll re-pot again now before it settles in.

I never had any luck with the leaf pull, so rip leaf so it get some of the hormones from the cinnamon, then dip with gel to aid growth and success rate of a strike or not. As all the previous attempts without just dried out and died.

Looking forward to your advice. I tip my hat to you.

Wisewords
Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
Always count your blessings in life
Region: California Houseplants Plays in the sandbox Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Composter
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tarev
Feb 15, 2015 7:52 PM CST
Cinnamon is a natural fungicide, so it helps heal the open scar left on the stem or branch where you will remove the leaf. Choose a healthy looking leaf, then do a gentle twist and pull on the leaf, so it's easier to get the petiole intact. Don't add sand anymore, just make a new mix maybe do it 50-50 your cactus soil and perlite. That should keep the media open. Since the cutting has no roots yet, put plant in part shade, so it can redirect energy to forming the roots.

Just lay that leaf you pulled on top of the new media you got. Cut end will naturally dry out and in time it will make new roots or new leaves first. I would not want to water it now. Just allow cutting to recover. Once you see a new growth, water a little, around the plant but not too near the new plant, just to keep the soil moist..and then leave it alone again to continue growing. Just be patient in waiting.

The other jades with roots will be able to adapt faster, since there are roots already. Just have to keep that media airy and dry, you can water it thoroughly once at root zone level to keep the soil moist, and leave it alone. Next watering can be in another month, since it is indoors.The south west position is okay.

If temps begin to improve in your area, you can gradually bring them out, in a protected area where it will not get too rained on, but still get good light. Temperature range of 10C to 15C is okay, as long as they are kept dry and with bright light.
UK Southeast
wisewords
Feb 16, 2015 11:03 AM CST
Hi Tarev

This is the cacti media as it came.

Thumb of 2015-02-16/wisewords/3786fc
Thumb of 2015-02-16/wisewords/f7dbe8

Here it is 50/50 with perlite which I take it this is what you recommend.

Thumb of 2015-02-16/wisewords/bfad3f

If you think this is OK then I'll re-pot and start a couple of leaf pulls.

Many thanks

Wisewords

Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
Always count your blessings in life
Region: California Houseplants Plays in the sandbox Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Composter
Cactus and Succulents Dragonflies Hummingbirder Amaryllis Container Gardener Xeriscape
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tarev
Feb 16, 2015 11:20 AM CST
Yup! Looks quite good with the perlite in! Smiling Good luck hope your plants recover nicely.
UK Southeast
wisewords
Feb 16, 2015 11:45 AM CST
Cool tarev

I'll keep you posted...

Thanks once again

Wisewords
UK Southeast
wisewords
Feb 24, 2015 9:41 AM CST
Hi all well I went to my relatives to see how her plant was getting on, this is what I found:

Thumb of 2015-02-24/wisewords/ff94b8

The tips appear to be alive.

Thumb of 2015-02-24/wisewords/a2ab76

How the was after my relative re potted after me, as she said it was dropping the leaves.

Thumb of 2015-02-24/wisewords/76156a

Here is a photo after I rinsed the root as I was not sure which media she had used, I think normal house compost.

Thumb of 2015-02-24/wisewords/b7fdb0

Thumb of 2015-02-24/wisewords/f61edc

I have since re-potted the plant in the 50/50 media mixture perlite & cacti media as it came.

If I cut some of the branches 1-2" back to try and get it to grow again, would you wait for it to callus over then plant as is, or can I use a rooting hormone gel to help get it started...

Since the plant looks in a very poor way as you can see.

Your advise welcome as always.

Wisewords

Name: tarev
San Joaquin County, CA (Zone 9b)
Always count your blessings in life
Region: California Houseplants Plays in the sandbox Orchids Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Composter
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tarev
Feb 24, 2015 12:08 PM CST
The plant is alive, that much I can see with the growing tip. I would just put it in similar mix you did before, and put in part shade.
One thing with this succulent, it is obviously undergoing some stress, so you have to give it time again to adjust and acclimate. Since there are no leaves left, it will try to grow new ones. The plant will concentrate in growing new roots then the leaves.

At this point, I will not trim that plant, it has been to a lot of stress already, besides the branches looks okay. Just plant it back in a new mix. There are existing roots, so it should grow new ones slowly. I only use rooting hormones when there is no root visible. But this one has some roots already. Crassulas grow such a small and very shallow root ball, so plant in a small container for now in a new mix, water lightly and leave it alone in a part shade area.
[Last edited by tarev - Feb 24, 2015 12:08 PM (+)]
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UK Southeast
wisewords
Feb 25, 2015 3:56 AM CST
OK Tarev

Will do, many thanks

Wisewords

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