I agree with becky on the watering...dont overdo. I usually want a good three to four leaves before transplanting.

I agree with Pam that you need to wait until the fans are a bit bigger before transplanting. You want to have a good root system before planting out in your garden. Mine usually get their roots all tangled together (since I grow 3-4 seeds per cup of the same cross). But I am able to tease the roots apart to separate all the daylilies in each cup. You want nice roots and good foliage before transplanting (to ensure survival).

Natalie said:@sooby I didn't test anything. I just put them freshly harvested seeds in a cup over night, or maybe for two nights, and then I put them in the fridge dry.

Sorry, Natalie, I worded that badly, I didn't mean you did it deliberately as a test. Just that I thought you coincidentally did something similar to what Maurice had described, that is the seeds were refrigerated after harvest after drying for a couple of days or so. Then later on you added water to start them stratifying and some sprouted within a few days in the fridge. It would seem in response to the water because they didn't sprout before yet wouldn't have been totally dried down with only two days prior drying (unless they were not in an air-tight container in the fridge and dried out further in there). Just looking to learn something about daylily seed dormancy indirectly from your procedure.

That is exactly what I did. Some spouted in about a week, and every one of them germinated, though some from the same pod took a week, and others took closer to a month. Even after keeping them dry in the fridge for 3 years, I've had 100% germination. Again, some sprouted in a week, and others took longer, but none took over a month. Also, I brought all of my extra seeds with me when I moved. They had been in the fridge for a few months. I took them out while moving, and didn't have them chilled. So, maybe 2 days out. I put them back in for a year, and they all germinated when I added moisture. This is why I will only germinate them this way.

If you use the silly tray with the lid, then if you do as the instructions say and set the lid open a bit then how do the other seedlings stay warm and sprout?

Ok. Soaked next batch in hydrogen peroxide and planted. We will see how long it takes!!!

@christyh, I hope that isn't straight peroxide! You need to mix it with water. I think it's 4 parts water to 1 part peroxide. Not sure though. Maybe it is 5 to 1. I haven't mixed any in a while.

Natalie said:@christyh, I hope that isn't straight peroxide! You need to mix it with water. I think it's 4 parts water to 1 part peroxide. Not sure though. Maybe it is 5 to 1. I haven't mixed any in a while.

I tested different strengths and they did still germinate in full strength peroxide (meaning the 3% H2O2 from the pharmacy, not the "industrial strength" stuff) but normally people use 1:9 dilution. What I did notice, though, is that the weaker the solution the more actual growth while still in the solution. I didn't grow the germinated seeds on so I don't know if that would have been a permanent effect so I would still recommend going with the typical 1:9 but not weaker than 1:11. I counted them as germinated if I could see the little white nubbin protruding. I perhaps should have waited until the coleorhiza split with the radicle emerged to count them as germinated, as in Dr. Griesbach's experiments. If I was growing them on I don't think I would leave them in the solution past the point at which the first protrusion from the seed coat occurred.

Christy, how long did you soak them for? Most people just leave the seeds in the solution (room temperature and out of the sun) and pick them out as they germinate, or plant them all once they've seen one or two germinate. I don't know how they would respond to different times in the solution, i.e. how many days' soak would suffice.

Regarding your question about the lid, the reason you remove it or otherwise increase ventilation once some have germinated is that the high humidity under the lid puts the already germinated seedlings at risk of damping off (fungal infection). Also, if the seeds were not stratified and therefore germinate over several weeks, your first to germinate may have outgrown the lid (how high is it?) before the others have appeared. Taking the germinated ones out as you did is an option as long as you do it early enough and without damaging them so that it doesn't set them back but I think most people just remove the lid (if there was one). As an aside, do you recall how deep you planted the seeds? Indoors, they should be around twice the depth of the seed. If you plant them deeper it'll be longer before you see growth and they'll also use up more of their stored food to get to the light where they can start photosynthesizing.

Natalie, your seeds were refrigerated longer than I'd remembered so the seed dormancy may have worn off with at least some of them (if they had any in the first place). If you were so inclined at any time to test my theory (hint ) next time you start them you might take a dozen or so seeds and start them at room temperature instead of the fridge and see what happens in comparison to the ones in the fridge.

Sue, I'm not so sure that I agree with what you said about most people leaving the seeds in the solution at room temperature. Many people germinate them in the fridge. We've had many discussions on here about this, and it seems to me that most people put them in the fridge to germinate. That isn't to say that one method is better than the other. What works for one person doesn't always work for the next, so everyone does what works for them. For me, and many others, they are chilled.

I was going by discussions on the AHS Robin over the years, that's why I tried the soaking in peroxide solution at room temperature until they germinated to determine the optimum strength. I didn't mean that most people germinate their daylily seeds in peroxide but, several years ago at least, some people did and they usually said they left them in until germination. One or two people tried peroxide soaking in the fridge but it didn't work at all well in my tests, whereas soaking in it at room temperature did. Soaking seeds in hydrogen peroxide is known to break seed dormancy in other plant seeds and is sometimes used for seed viability testing. The necessary duration of soaking for daylily seeds is untested, though, as far as I know. If you use a peroxide soak you do not need to refrigerate, the one substitutes for the other, although on occasion a few people have found that peroxide didn't work on certain seeds and they had to be stratified (the seeds, not the people ).

The standard method of combating seed dormancy in daylilies is stratification, which is damp chilling in the fridge, followed by germination at room temperature. I know there has been some misunderstanding of the latter in which a few people leave them in the fridge to germinate there, and I know that works for you, which is entirely your choice. In the original experiments by Dr. Griesbach in the 1950's the dry, unrefrigerated seeds were soaked for a day or two to rehydrate, then refrigerated*. After a few weeks they were removed from the fridge and started at various temperatures (I have the original article and it is 15 pages long so takes a lot of wading through!). He found the optimum germination temp for non-stratified seeds was 22-25C (72-77F) with the minimum germination temperature being 16C (61F) and the maximum 33C (91F) but that stratified seeds could germinate at lower temperatures.

I would agree that most people put their daylily seeds in the fridge to stratify, or at least to store, but not that most leave them in the fridge to actually germinate. Maybe we need a vote

None of the above is necessary if the seeds don't have seed dormancy, they can just be started at room temperature with no damp refrigeration or peroxide treatment, but you can't tell if they have seed dormancy by looking at them. One has to go by experience with one's own seeds, or just stratify anyway. Or, just plant them at room temp indoors or outdoors and wait if it doesn't matter whether they all germinate at once.

I remember once I re-used some potting mix that had had unstratified daylily seeds in it. Apparently some were still dormant in the mix, unbeknown to me, and they germinated around a houseplant months later!

As the AHS Daylily Dictionary says under stratification:
http://www.daylilies.org/ahs_d...
".....Stratification causes the seeds to germinate at more or less the same time upon removal from chilling conditions , instead of spread out erratically over weeks or even months......"

*Edit: I should add that Dr. Griesbach also tested stratifying daylily seeds outdoors in these 1950's experiments. These days I suppose that would be called winter sowing.

I have soaked seeds in a weak peroxide water solution and water only solution, with the former yielding the best results. I've soaked them in a weak humic acid solution and a weak seedling fertilizer too. They did no better than peroxide and water and were much more expensive. Once a seed shoots out its little white tail, I usually plant it. Rarely do all of them pop at the same time; although, I have had a few pods where all but one would germinate around the same time. Also, I have heard of this lazy ass guy who actually let his seeds soak in a peroxide and water solution so long until they actually grew their first leaves! Personally, I would never be that lazy or ignore seeds on my counter that long, so this is what I've ¨heard¨

I was too scared to leave them in the solution. Water and peroxide that is. I let them go from dry and shriveled to plumped up and planted. I am getting ten now on the others that I planted first. So how do you remove and plant the ones that came up without damaging? With a spoon?

christyh said:I was too scared to leave them in the solution. Water and peroxide that is. I let them go from dry and shriveled to plumped up and planted. I am getting ten now on the others that I planted first. So how do you remove and plant the ones that came up without damaging? With a spoon?

That should work just fine, as you've hydrated them. I think anything you can use that won't damage the roots should be fine. When I plant seedlings in a flat tray of potting mix, I use a tooth pick and my fingers to remove them, but I don't see why a spoon wouldn't work

Has anyone tried a rooting horomone?

That seed dormancy is confusing!!!!

I don't think rooting hormones work on seeds, I think they are used on plant stems to help them root.

The only hormone I've heard of anyone trying with daylily seeds is gibberellic acid. My recollection is that the results weren't especially good, but I'd have to look up my notes. Let me know if you're interested and I'll find the reference.

It would help to know what you're finding confusing about seed dormancy, Christy. The easiest solution is probably to just do what you've done and plant them. If they have seed dormancy some may take weeks or months to germinate, so don't throw away the medium if you want to give them all a chance and you haven't seen as many seedlings as you planted seeds. Damp chilling (or peroxide soak) just speeds things up so you don't have to wait for stragglers.

Seed dormancy is just the plants way of not having all its eggs in one basket. Staggered germination prevents all the seeds/seedlings from being wiped out at once by some catastrophe. Seeds that respond to stratification experience a winter (fridge or outdoors) and then a spring (room temperature or warmer temps outdoors). That sequence clues them in that it's safer to germinate all at once because they have the whole warmer growing season ahead of them to get big before winter, whereas germinating in fall would be hazardous to their survival.

Not sure if this helps or makes it even more complicated!

sooby said:Seeds that respond to stratification experience a winter (fridge or outdoors) and then a spring (room temperature or warmer temps outdoors). That sequence clues them in that it's safer to germinate all at once because they have the whole warmer growing season ahead of them to get big before winter, whereas germinating in fall would be hazardous to their survival.

Not sure if this helps or makes it even more complicated!

I'm still finding this very confusing! You say that the seeds respond to stratification, such as winter in the fridge or outdoors, and then a spring (room temp or warmer temps outdoors). That would suggest that the seeds must be warm in order to germinate, and that just isn't always the case. I'm far from the only person who germinates the seeds in the fridge. I've never germinated them in outside the fridge, and yet, I always have success. I just don't want anyone to think that it is impossible to germinate them in the fridge, because it isn't!

Several years ago, I germinated a BUNCH of seeds in H2O2 mixed in with water in baggies in the refrigerator. Worked great! The next year I tried it again and got very poor results. I have no idea why. But eventually 80% of the seeds all rotted in the second batch. Since then, I've been very reluctant to try that method again. I guess there is a fine line between germination and rotting?

I think you have to be careful about how much moisture there is. I know a few people who have had them rot in the fridge because of that. At the most, I'd wet a paper towel, and squeeze it out really well. I use makeup removal pads cut in half, but it's the same idea. I always squeeze the excess moisture out. Haven't had any problems that way.