Plant ID forum: Pseudogynoxys; Brazil, orange flower for ID

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Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
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bonitin
Apr 6, 2015 8:09 AM CST
It should be in the Asteraceae family, a very huge family, couldn't find a match so far..

Thumb of 2015-04-06/bonitin/2ee8b8 Thumb of 2015-04-06/bonitin/b39027 Thumb of 2015-04-06/bonitin/bbc943

Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
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plantladylin
Apr 6, 2015 9:04 AM CST
Maybe a variety of Mexican Flame Vine (Pseudogynoxys chenopodioides 'Sao Paulo')
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Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
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bonitin
Apr 6, 2015 9:19 AM CST
Thanks Lin, the flower of the Mexican Flame Vine looks very much like mine, apart from the leaves.
I've been googling pictures of the genus Pseudogynoxys but non have leaves as mine; It didn't feel like a herb more like a shrub, quite sturdy..
[Last edited by bonitin - Apr 6, 2015 9:27 AM (+)]
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Name: Carol
Santa Ana,Ca. (Zone 10b)
Sunset zone 22
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ctcarol
Apr 6, 2015 11:55 AM CST
According to Flora, this is a genus of 13 shrubs or climbers native to tropical South America. All have alternate leaves, orange flowers , and are members of the Asteraceae family.
Name: Greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
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greene
Apr 6, 2015 12:23 PM CST
Pardon me for not knowing the proper terminology for this but is it possible there are two plants in these images? Can we see an image of the flower standing away from the other foliage?

Looking in the upper middle of first image and lower right of second image you will see leaves that are (?dentate? crennate?) very much like the Google Images of the Pseudogynoxys with similar flowers.

https://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/butterflies/plants/mexican_flame_v...

http://www.flowerpictures.net/flower_database/d_flowers/dais...
Thank You!
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Paul
Utah (Zone 5b)
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Paul2032
Apr 6, 2015 12:32 PM CST
I, like Greene, wonder if the bloom and lower leaves are the same plant. Lower leaves look like a vibrunum.
Paul Smith Pleasant Grove, Utah
[Last edited by Paul2032 - Apr 6, 2015 2:11 PM (+)]
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Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
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bonitin
Apr 6, 2015 1:55 PM CST
*Blush* My apologies!
Oh I think you're all right, now that I have a closer look at the photos they must be two different plants!
I can only excuse myself that I had to take the photos in a hurry as I was in company of people not as obsessed with plants like me.. Rolling my eyes.
The "flora do Brazil" doesn't mention Pseudogynoxys, but it could be an immigrant..I'll look further into it tomorrow..
Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
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plantladylin
Apr 6, 2015 3:06 PM CST
Myriam, the Flora Da Brazil may have it listed under it's synonym of Senecio confusus
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Name: Carol
Santa Ana,Ca. (Zone 10b)
Sunset zone 22
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ctcarol
Apr 6, 2015 3:11 PM CST
On the second picture, I can see leaves that look exactly like Mexican Flame Vine. A small one right behind the flower and several darker ones at bottom right.
Name: Beverly
Colima, Mexico (Zone 11a)
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vitrsna
Apr 6, 2015 3:26 PM CST
Good catch Greene! With a closer look i can see the slightly dentate (?i.e. toothed) leaves in the blurry background.

And you are correct Plantladylin, in Mexico, Central, and South America the plant is generally known as Senecio confusus.
Name: Greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
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greene
Apr 6, 2015 4:52 PM CST
How aptly named...Senecio confusus -

as the photos did manage to confuse us. Rolling on the floor laughing
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Carol
Santa Ana,Ca. (Zone 10b)
Sunset zone 22
Charter ATP Member Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Orchids Region: California Plant Identifier
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ctcarol
Apr 6, 2015 5:36 PM CST
I think that's the name I bought mine under. Of course that was several years ago. Sunset W.rn Garden Book still lists it under Senecio Confusus
Name: Beverly
Colima, Mexico (Zone 11a)
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vitrsna
Apr 6, 2015 8:49 PM CST
Yes, Greene...it did confusus Hilarious! The name really translates to "crazy old man" (or "senile old man" if you prefer) Rolling my eyes. You just have to wonder why...
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
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bonitin
Apr 7, 2015 1:03 AM CST
I think its most likely the Mexican Flame Vine, immigrants along road sides are not that rare i guess..

The Flora do Brasil gives 16 species Senecio, I googled them all, but no match..
http://floradobrasil.jbrj.gov.br/jabot/listaBrasil/ConsultaP...

As my photos are so confusing I'm not going to enter them into the database! Hilarious!
A big Thank You! to all!
Name: Greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
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greene
Apr 7, 2015 8:24 AM CST
Perhaps Googling is not enough. I looked at Catalogue of Life...on this page:

http://www.catalogueoflife.org/col/details/species/id/178056...

Look near the bottom of the page for 'distribution' it lists..."8 - Southern America, 84 - Brazil, Brazil Southeast (BZL), São Paulo (BZL-SP)";
for 'additional data' it lists..." Lista de Espécies da Flora do Brasil"


Edited to add:
I looked on "Lista de Especies da Flora do Brasil for Pseudeogynoxys chenopodioides and found it listed...native to Brasil but not endemic.

Edited at add:
Lists change all the time; perhaps you are using an older text?
There are other Pseudogynoxys listed in Flora do Brasil...your plant may be P. lobata ( a 'provisionally accepted nam'e), or it may be P. cabrerae which has the synonym P. benthamii
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~~"Leaf of Faith"
[Last edited by greene - Apr 7, 2015 8:54 AM (+)]
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Name: Beverly
Colima, Mexico (Zone 11a)
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vitrsna
Apr 7, 2015 8:47 AM CST
Myriam...does this plant list only include floras native to Brazil? My Plantas Mexicanas book lists the plant as native to Mexico and it may have been introduced to Brazil. Possibly this is the reason it is not showing up on your list?
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
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bonitin
Apr 7, 2015 11:25 AM CST
Interesting find Greene about the 'Catalogue of Life' listing Pseudogynoxys chenopodioides as native also to S-E Brazil with the notation of the 'Flora do Brasil'!
I've looked again in there and it is still not listed..?
Could you give me your link to the site where you found it, not sure if I'm using an old list..

No Beverly, the 'Flora do Brasil' also mentions plants which have naturalized but are not native to Brazil like f. ex. Impatiens walleriana..
Name: Greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
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greene
Apr 7, 2015 4:19 PM CST
I typed into google "Lista de Especie da Flora do Brazil 2012" (I had tried 2013 through 2015 but I think 2012 may be the newest version available);
the space for Group was already filled in as Angiosperms;
the space for Family was already filled in as 'all;
in the space for Genus I typed: Pseudogynoxys
in the space for Species I typed: chenopodioides
...then hit 'search' and the plant is there.

The link to the results page was so long I did not add it to my earlier message...click on this to find the page for Pseudogynoxys chenopodioides:

http://floradobrasil.jbrj.gov.br/jabot/listaBrasil/ConsultaP...
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
Rabbit Keeper Critters Allowed Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages
Herbs Region: Georgia Region: United States of America Native Plants and Wildflowers Dog Lover Composter
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greene
Apr 7, 2015 9:24 PM CST
I found a much shorter link that leads to the same answer; it also shows how to cite the work which includes a current date.

The link:
http://floradobrasil.jbrj.gov.br/jabot/listaBrasil/FichaPubl...

"How To Cite:
Borges, R.A.X.; Teles, A.M. Pseudogynoxys in Lista de Espécies da Flora do Brasil. Jardim Botânico do Rio de Janeiro. Available in: <http://floradobrasil.jbrj.gov.br/jabot/floradobrasil/FB102404>. Access on: 08 Abr. 2015"

Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Apr 8, 2015 3:38 AM CST
Thank you so much for your help! i found out that my link was giving me a version from 2013!
it does give Pseudogynoxys now of which two of them in the South-East, not in the Rio de Janeiro State, but we were not far from the neighbouring Sao Paulo State. Borders are never very strict, for plants..
Pseudogynoxys chenopodioides
Pseudogynoxys cabrerae

I googled Pseudogynoxys cabrerae and LOOOK at the leaves!!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30743267@N06/11664484765
https://www.google.be/search?q=Pseudogynoxys+cabrerae&rlz=1C...
Now I am confused again, they do look like mine!! Rolling on the floor laughing

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