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Apr 18, 2015 11:27 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Lee-Roy
Bilzen, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Region: Belgium Composter Region: Europe Ferns Hostas Irises
Lilies Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
Yesterday I got my delivery of 1m³ of compost (I was excited like a child with a lollipop lol Sticking tongue out ) to improve my heavy clay soil.


Thumb of 2015-04-18/Arico/fe85d0
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As you can see I topdressed the 4 raised beds because I already had plants in it and didn't want to disturb their roots now that they've begun growing (I'm surprised my lavender survived the wet winter in that). However, since it's still clay soil, I'm not sure if I was better off working it in with a fork...I would do it like that in the non-planted ones.

Before I mulched with compost I used my grass mowings, but that was hardly enough to get the weeds at bay...

Opinions?
Avatar for Shadegardener
Apr 18, 2015 1:07 PM CST
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
That is a tough question since compost is so valuable - soil structure or nutrients? Can you loosen up the top 6" to 8" of your clay with a pitchfork or shovel? Not necessarily digging and turning over but loosening (less work). Then I would put the compost on top like your other beds. Clay is really tough to loosen up with compost because compost would continue to break down. There are probably lots of nutrients in your clay but hard for plants to access.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we can't eat money. Cree proverb
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Apr 18, 2015 8:37 PM CST
Name: wayne
memphis (Zone 7b)
Keeper of Poultry Region: Tennessee
my goodness, you're in Bilzen? I would LOVE to be in your part of the world right now! I'm a cycling fan and will be awake watching Amstel Gold at like 5:30 my time tomorrow morning.

I really like your beds and honestly the exposed clay I see in your picture reminds me a lot of what I have in my yard here in Tennessee. I think you should focus on top-dressing the bed with compost over time...because feeding the plants will give them the vigor necessary to spread roots and succeed in that environment. If at all possible try to encourage earthworms to come in and break up that soil as well. I would be concerned about harming the integrity of your beds if you started digging around inside.
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Apr 19, 2015 12:04 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Lee-Roy
Bilzen, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Region: Belgium Composter Region: Europe Ferns Hostas Irises
Lilies Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
Is Bilzen that famous? :p Well I'm not a fan haha; I actually hate it. Those guys have no respect for the rules of the road around here!

Well I already worked in some potting soil and sharp sand through it last summer before planting, but drainage hasn't really improved because of that. Anyway, I'm trying to get my own composting factory up and running to supply myself each year for topdressing.
And yea as you said, mulching is perhaps better in already 'established/planted' beds. I also dig up some worms from the back of the shed and move them to the raised beds to lend a helping hand :p I'd be surprised if they moved from my lawn to the beds themselves as they need to dig underneath the wall.
Avatar for Shadegardener
Apr 19, 2015 2:21 PM CST
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
Your relocated worms would love the compost top-dressing - it's supposed to encourage more worm activity.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we can't eat money. Cree proverb
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Apr 19, 2015 2:57 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
Used coffee grounds also attract worms. They also add nitrogen and organic matter and (until they break down) open up the clay a little tiny bit.

I would agree with Cindy: if the clay is soft enough that you can scratch some compost into the top 6-8 inches, do that. It will make those 6-8 inches a l8ittle more open to letting oxygen diffuse down, and will retain more water.

It will also decompose faster than top-dressed mulch would.

Even the beds with plants already established could let you scratch the compost in a little between the plants. But it sure looks nice as it is, and it WILL decompose over time and the mineral nutrients will eventually reach the roots.

>> I'm not sure if I was better off working it in with a fork

When you have your own compost pile going, you can have the best of both approaches: do both. Turn in as much finished or near-finished compost as possible every spring and fall.

AND top-dress with 1-2 inches of compost (finished or near-finished or just started) and/or mulch (coarse) a few times per year after the plants are in.

After you've added enough compost for enough years, top-dressing with compost or mulch will be enough to MAINTAIN soil structure. It helps drainage and aeration that you added sand right at the beginning and mixed it well. Mixing in crushed stone, grit or screened bark 2-4 mm in size will also help create drainage.

But, if you don;t provide and maintain enough compost, the clay will revert to clay or concrete.
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Apr 19, 2015 4:21 PM CST
Name: wayne
memphis (Zone 7b)
Keeper of Poultry Region: Tennessee
That all sounds great, I think you are on the right track! Don't underestimate your worms, you never know where you will find them after a hard rain Smiling

As far as cycling goes, I don't blame you. I don't ride much anymore because most of the folks I encounter on the bike drive me nuts. I can only imagine living in the middle of it all, so to speak.
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May 7, 2015 11:09 PM CST
Name: Paul
Bunbury, Western Australia. (Zone 10b)
Region: Australia
Hi Lee-Roy, have you enlisted any gypsum to help break down the clay? If not, you can use 1 kilo per square metre and of course it doesn't alter your PH.If there are any horse stables in your area, or across the border, do a Sunday drive.Horse manure contains so much partially/decomposed hay (but also weed seed) and the worms love it, so will your dogs! Build up your worm population and let them do the work.
Different latitudes, different attitudes
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Jul 24, 2015 7:40 AM CST
Name: Tiffany purpleinopp
Opp, AL @--`--,----- 🌹 (Zone 8b)
Region: United States of America Houseplants Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Garden Sages Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Organic Gardener Composter Miniature Gardening Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Tender Perennials Butterflies
Whenever the dirt is disturbed, it negatively affects the drainage and microbes, temporarily. Unless installing plants or removing unwanted ones, I try to not disturb the soil, even in dead spots where I've just pulled up grass. Without human intervention, organic matter (besides dead roots) would never be under the surface. The worms & microbes are best able to do their job when things are "normal" and undisturbed.

A 15 min vid that explains these things much better than I can.
http://permaculturenews.org/20...
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Avatar for Shadegardener
Jul 24, 2015 7:42 AM CST
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
Would surface mulch/compost application entice worms to come up closer to the surface of the soil where a lot of plant roots are located?
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we can't eat money. Cree proverb
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Jul 24, 2015 7:47 AM CST
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Composter Daylilies Garden Photography Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: Alabama
Most definitely, the only problem I have with that is that it gets the worms near the surface (they congregate in the roots of my daylilies) then all the critters in the neighborhood come to feast on them, and they dig up my plants toss them to the side and I end up replanting things almost every morning. Still, I love having all the worms working my soil.
Last edited by Seedfork Jul 24, 2015 7:48 AM Icon for preview
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Jul 24, 2015 8:52 AM CST
Name: Tiffany purpleinopp
Opp, AL @--`--,----- 🌹 (Zone 8b)
Region: United States of America Houseplants Overwinters Tender Plants Indoors Garden Sages Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Level 2
Organic Gardener Composter Miniature Gardening Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Tender Perennials Butterflies
Absolutely! That's the natural way for worms to access OM. Their digging/tunneling is part of what helps improve drainage, and they drag some materials under the surface. They know what to do.
The golden rule: Do to others only that which you would have done to you.
👀😁😂 - SMILE! -☺😎☻☮👌✌∞☯
The only way to succeed is to try!
🐣🐦🐔🍯🐾🌺🌻🌸🌼🌹
The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The 2nd best time is now. (-Unknown)
👒🎄👣🏡🍃🍂🌾🌿🍁❦❧🍁🍂🌽❀☀ ☕👓🐝
Try to be more valuable than a bad example.
Avatar for Shadegardener
Jul 24, 2015 8:58 AM CST
Name: Cindy
Hobart, IN zone 5
aka CindyMzone5
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
Larry - I never thought of the downside of surface amending.
I so prefer the worms working my soil than hard labor on my part. Smiling
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize that we can't eat money. Cree proverb
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