Ask a Question forum: Grass questions

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Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
Vegetable Grower Garden Photography Hybridizer Spiders! Annuals Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
keithp2012
May 12, 2015 7:14 PM CST
sooby said:Keith, when you say the spots get worse and worse every year do you mean that individual ones get bigger? That wouldn't likely be animals in that case. How big are the spots and are they circular or irregular?

Meaning they start with grass dying, slowly less grass is in the area, and eventually no grass is left just bare soil. The spots are irregular and I dug and saw no grubs or anything, the rest of the lawn is lush and green.
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
May 12, 2015 8:42 PM CST
That is what the grass looks like over out septic tank which has a round lid a few inches under the turf. The shallow soil can't hold enough water to keep the grass alive and green. Do you have a septic system?
Porkpal
Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
Vegetable Grower Garden Photography Hybridizer Spiders! Annuals Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
keithp2012
May 12, 2015 11:36 PM CST
porkpal said:That is what the grass looks like over out septic tank which has a round lid a few inches under the turf. The shallow soil can't hold enough water to keep the grass alive and green. Do you have a septic system?


Nope, we have sewers.
Name: Greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
Rabbit Keeper Critters Allowed Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages
Herbs Region: Georgia Region: United States of America Native Plants and Wildflowers Dog Lover Composter
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greene
May 14, 2015 9:20 AM CST
Just jumping in for a minute. Keith, I realize you have sewers, but has the property every had a septic system in the past? I lived in a house that originally had a septic system; after the city installed sewer lines we hooked up to the new system but the old septic tank was still in place with the lid (as @porkpal mentioned) was just a few inches under the soil.

Use a piece of re-bar and jab it into the soil where the bare spot is and see if you contact anything hard like metal or concrete.

Okay, I'll go back to lurking now. Rolling on the floor laughing
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
May 14, 2015 9:41 AM CST
keithp2012 said:
Meaning they start with grass dying, slowly less grass is in the area, and eventually no grass is left just bare soil. The spots are irregular and I dug and saw no grubs or anything, the rest of the lawn is lush and green.


Keith, did you also do the check for chinch bugs? If you could post a picture showing the spots and the surrounding area it may help. I think this thread has got a little confused with the OP's pictures of large round patches and your zoysia problem. Maybe it would be a good idea to start a separate thread?

Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
Vegetable Grower Garden Photography Hybridizer Spiders! Annuals Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
keithp2012
May 14, 2015 1:28 PM CST
greene said:Just jumping in for a minute. Keith, I realize you have sewers, but has the property every had a septic system in the past? I lived in a house that originally had a septic system; after the city installed sewer lines we hooked up to the new system but the old septic tank was still in place with the lid (as @porkpal mentioned) was just a few inches under the soil.

Use a piece of re-bar and jab it into the soil where the bare spot is and see if you contact anything hard like metal or concrete.

Okay, I'll go back to lurking now. Rolling on the floor laughing


Good idea, however I hit nothing. So that isn't the issue.
Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
Vegetable Grower Garden Photography Hybridizer Spiders! Annuals Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
keithp2012
May 14, 2015 1:33 PM CST
sooby said:

Keith, did you also do the check for chinch bugs? If you could post a picture showing the spots and the surrounding area it may help. I think this thread has got a little confused with the OP's pictures of large round patches and your zoysia problem. Maybe it would be a good idea to start a separate thread?



They are the same symptoms. Here are photos of mine, a semi damaged spot and a very bad one.

Thumb of 2015-05-14/keithp2012/25102e
Thumb of 2015-05-14/keithp2012/313e98

Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
May 14, 2015 2:35 PM CST
Do the spots recover and new ones appear or are they chronic?
Porkpal
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
May 14, 2015 3:32 PM CST
keithp2012 said:

They are the same symptoms. Here are photos of mine, a semi damaged spot and a very bad one.


The symptoms don't look the same to me. Gotsqueeze's patches are circular, which makes them less likely to be caused by an insect pest whereas your patches are irregular which could be a number of things. We need to see more of the larger environment but if you'd rather not post a picture that may be identifying of your location then can you tell us if this grass is walked on (the second picture patch is somewhat elongated and looks compacted but can't see how long the elongation is - rather looks like foot traffic), if it is near a road (salt injury), whether irrigated, fertilized, any tree roots etc. etc.

One thing you could do if you don't think the problem is somehow environmental is take a watering can with two or three tablespoons of dishwashing liquid in a couple of gallons of water and pour some of it on the turf around the bare spots. You don't need to pour all of it on but just enough to soak in to a couple of square feet or so. Wait about five minutes and then see if any insects come out. This is a hands and knees job! If you don't know what the insects are (they aren't necessarily all bad) then try and get a picture of them so we can check them out. You'll need to flush the area you tested with plain water afterwards to dilute the soap so that it doesn't add to the damage.

Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
Vegetable Grower Garden Photography Hybridizer Spiders! Annuals Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
keithp2012
May 14, 2015 3:37 PM CST
porkpal said:Do the spots recover and new ones appear or are they chronic?


Chronic with new spots. Spots are bare also in winter.
Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
Vegetable Grower Garden Photography Hybridizer Spiders! Annuals Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
keithp2012
May 14, 2015 3:38 PM CST
sooby said:

The symptoms don't look the same to me. Gotsqueeze's patches are circular, which makes them less likely to be caused by an insect pest whereas your patches are irregular which could be a number of things. We need to see more of the larger environment but if you'd rather not post a picture that may be identifying of your location then can you tell us if this grass is walked on (the second picture patch is somewhat elongated and looks compacted but can't see how long the elongation is - rather looks like foot traffic), if it is near a road (salt injury), whether irrigated, fertilized, any tree roots etc. etc.

One thing you could do if you don't think the problem is somehow environmental is take a watering can with two or three tablespoons of dishwashing liquid in a couple of gallons of water and pour some of it on the turf around the bare spots. You don't need to pour all of it on but just enough to soak in to a couple of square feet or so. Wait about five minutes and then see if any insects come out. This is a hands and knees job! If you don't know what the insects are (they aren't necessarily all bad) then try and get a picture of them so we can check them out. You'll need to flush the area you tested with plain water afterwards to dilute the soap so that it doesn't add to the damage.



When I'm not busy I'll try this and to get clearer photos.
Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
Vegetable Grower Garden Photography Hybridizer Spiders! Annuals Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
keithp2012
May 15, 2015 2:43 PM CST
keithp2012 said:

When I'm not busy I'll try this and to get clearer photos.


I tried flushing the grass and all I saw were spiders, earthworms, and some aphids that are falling off the nearby maple trees.

I took a better photo of the lawn.
Thumb of 2015-05-15/keithp2012/f0e84a

Name: Greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
Rabbit Keeper Critters Allowed Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages
Herbs Region: Georgia Region: United States of America Native Plants and Wildflowers Dog Lover Composter
Image
greene
May 15, 2015 3:15 PM CST
.
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~~"Leaf of Faith"
[Last edited by greene - May 16, 2015 7:19 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #854871 (13)
Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
Vegetable Grower Garden Photography Hybridizer Spiders! Annuals Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
keithp2012
May 15, 2015 7:25 PM CST
greene said:We seem to have two threads here. This is confusing my brain.
Can we split this into two; one for the original poster gotsqueeze and a separate thread for Keith?


Just send me a pm on it with your answer.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
May 15, 2015 7:32 PM CST
Keith, what is the bowl for?
Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
Vegetable Grower Garden Photography Hybridizer Spiders! Annuals Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
keithp2012
May 15, 2015 10:00 PM CST
sooby said:Keith, what is the bowl for?


Food and water for my cats
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
sooby
May 16, 2015 4:27 AM CST
keithp2012 said:

Food and water for my cats


Are the bowls always in the same place?

Name: Greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
Rabbit Keeper Critters Allowed Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages
Herbs Region: Georgia Region: United States of America Native Plants and Wildflowers Dog Lover Composter
Image
greene
May 16, 2015 8:13 AM CST
Sighing!
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~~"Leaf of Faith"
[Last edited by greene - May 16, 2015 7:20 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #854876 (18)
Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
Vegetable Grower Garden Photography Hybridizer Spiders! Annuals Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
keithp2012
May 16, 2015 9:10 AM CST
greene said: Sighing! gotsqueeze started this thread to ask about spots on his lawn.
Somehow we are now talking about Keith and his cat's water bowls. Whistling

Can we get back on topic please? Thumbs up


Greene please stop, the op isn't complaining and you need to stop nitpicking on things like this it doesn't make anyone feel like they can post without being afraid of getting in trouble or something. You could of sent me a pm if you wanted to help but didn't, so please don't interrupt others helping me, you wouldn't want it done to you.
Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
Vegetable Grower Garden Photography Hybridizer Spiders! Annuals Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
keithp2012
May 16, 2015 9:11 AM CST
sooby said:

Are the bowls always in the same place?



Yes. Are you thinking its foot traffic perhaps that's causing this? If it is what can I do to fix it?

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