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Name: Jason
Gold Bar, Washington (Zone 8b)
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riverman123
Jun 8, 2015 3:19 PM CST
im getting white leaves on my Nikko Blue's and on my Jackmanii Clematis plants. they're within several feet of each other on the north side of a fence. I don't recall having this problem last year. or, if I did, it was VERY minor. this year however the Jackmanii is being consumed from the bottom up by all white (with a VERY slight hint of yellow), leaves that eventually drop off. my Hydrangea has many all white leaves on the inner portion of the shrub as well. again, dropping quickly. I can find anything and everything about "yellow leaves with green veins", indicating (chlorosis), soil PH problems limiting the plants ability to uptake Iron, but I can find NOTHING on all white leaves. one so called "expert" said he had never heard of such a thing! ha! thoughts?


from my Jackmanii Superba:
Thumb of 2015-06-08/riverman123/d6e237



from my Nikko Blue Hydrangea:
Thumb of 2015-06-08/riverman123/95bfbb

Name: Cynthia White
Courtenay, BC, Canada (Zone 7a)
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seawitch
Jun 8, 2015 7:45 PM CST
Hi there: This sounds like either a deficiency in Nitrogen or Iron or both......or sun scald. Have you fertilized it lately? If it was my plant, I would fertilize it quickly with something with a high Nitrogen number. The numbers on fertilizer are N-P-K, so x-x-x or N higher than the others. You could add some chelated iron to the ground too. I've never added iron before, so I don't know if it's a powder or what, but I know you can buy it.

I hope this helps.
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
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dyzzypyxxy
Jun 8, 2015 7:59 PM CST
Mm, iron chlorosis doesn't really look like a completely white leaf, as I recall. More of a yellow leaf with green veins. This looks more like maybe a soil pH problem to me.

I'd do a soil test around those plants, asap. You can get a pretty good soil test kit for about $10 at any garden center.

Is the fence made of concrete or stucco, by any chance? Or has it been power-washed or otherwise treated with anything recently? It could be leaching something into the soil that is causing this.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." โ€“Winston Churchill
Name: Jason
Gold Bar, Washington (Zone 8b)
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riverman123
Jun 9, 2015 4:50 AM CST
Cynthia - I don't think its sun scald. the lower portion of the plant is heavily shaded, (which may be part of the problem...?), until around 1 pm. then it gets full sun for only about 2 hours. the top of the plant is in full sun for several hours in the afternoon and it looks great up there. and besides, we here in western washignton have just now started to see the sun! haha! I haven't fertilized it lately, we did however fertilize it back in feb just as buds began to appear, with a combo of chicken manure, cottonseed meal, blood meal, bone meal, alfalfa meal, and kelp meal.

Elaine - the fence is untreated raw cedar. we've been here 9 years and to my knowledge there is nothing in the soil in the way of any "treatment" that may have washed into the soil.

heres a better view of the overall plant:
Thumb of 2015-06-09/riverman123/ef5b10

Name: Tiffany
Opp, AL (Zone 8b)
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purpleinopp
Jun 9, 2015 7:35 AM CST
Are these plants sensitive to weed'n'feed, and if so, has any been used on either side of the fence?
๐Ÿ‘€๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜‚ - SMILE! -โ˜บ๐Ÿ˜Žโ˜ปโ˜ฎ๐Ÿ‘ŒโœŒโˆžโ˜ฏ๐Ÿฃ๐Ÿฆ๐Ÿ”๐Ÿ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿพ
๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ‘’โ˜€๐Ÿ„๐Ÿ๐ŸŒฑ๐ŸŒฟ๐ŸŒด๐ŸŽ„๐Ÿ‘ฃ๐ŸŒต๐ŸŒทโš˜๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒป๐ŸŒฝ๐Ÿก๐Ÿƒ๐Ÿ‚๐ŸŒพ๐ŸŒฟ๐Ÿโฆโง ๐Ÿƒ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ‚๐ŸŒพ๐ŸŒป๐ŸŒบ๐ŸŒธ๐ŸŒผ๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒณ๐ŸŒฒ
โ˜•๐Ÿ‘“ The only way to succeed is to try.
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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dyzzypyxxy
Jun 9, 2015 8:05 AM CST
As Cynthia first suggested, they might be running short on nutrients if you haven't fertilized since February, Jason. Your last picture seems to show that. Since the sun is just now finally making an appearance, they're starting to really put on major growth, and need more goodies!

I like the sound of your fertilizer blend! But it wouldn't last more than a couple of months with all the rain you guys get.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." โ€“Winston Churchill
Name: Greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
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greene
Jun 9, 2015 8:56 AM CST
What is on the other side of that fence? If it is someone else's yard, do you know what they do near the fence? I mean, do they plant/spray/water/use chemicals, whatever?
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
Jun 9, 2015 1:01 PM CST
For those of you trying to help, there is a previous thread on this from a few days ago with an image of the hydrangea whole plant:

The thread "Pale and near white leaves on my Nikko Blue..." in Hydrangeas forum

In both the clematis picture above, and the hydrangea from the previous thread, the paler leaves are not the newest ones. Iron chlorosis can, if severe enough, cause leaves to be almost completely white, a progression from the more usual interveinal chlorosis, but it would be on the newest top leaves whereas this problem is on the lower leaves. Chlorosis starting on lower leaves would be more consistent with nitrogen deficiency but it doesn't usually progress to white.

When a deficiency shows first on the older leaves it is because the nutrient in question is mobile within the plant and therefore when that nutrient is in short supply the plant can move it from the older leaves to the newer ones where it is needed most. When a nutrient is not movable, the symptoms appear first on the newest leaves because the plant can only get it from the soil not other leaves, which is not the case here.

Also, iron chlorosis is usually only a problem when the soil pH is too high which doesn't appear to be the case here either, because the hydrangea is flowering blue and therefore the soil is sufficiently acidic.

Like Greene, I too pondered herbicide injury because that can certainly cause white leaves, but why might it be on the oldest leaves?

This is an odd problem. It doesn't really match typical nutrient deficiency symptoms although the clematis leaves don't look as white as the hydrangea in the pictures. Could it be some unusual combination though, or could N deficiency be severe enough to turn some leaves white? I don't know, but a soil test wouldn't hurt.

Edit: I meant to add, because it may be relevant, that Jason also mentioned daylilies not doing as well as expected: The thread "Daylily growth question..." in Daylilies forum
That could also indicate a nitrogen deficiency but it's not the only possibility.


[Last edited by sooby - Jun 9, 2015 1:05 PM (+)]
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Name: Greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
Rabbit Keeper Critters Allowed Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages
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greene
Jun 9, 2015 8:38 PM CST
It would be nice to have the threads together in one place so we can get the entire picture of the problem area.

Do the plants need magnesium?
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Jason
Gold Bar, Washington (Zone 8b)
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riverman123
Jun 9, 2015 9:50 PM CST
Greene - I have no idea what they need. Crying driving me crazy. im not so much worried about a few white leaves on the inner areas of my hydrangeas, although it is frustrating. rather, im much more worried about this white leaf issue completely decimating my clematis plants. I myself am assuming its a soil issue of some kind, not to state the obvious, but on what level...? magnesium? iron? nitrogen? the two hydrangeas and the three clematis plants are all exhibiting this white leaf phenomenon. the pic below was taken last year on July 5th. it doesn't show the problem im currently having, but it will give you an idea of the area and its contents. I don't have a pic from this year other than the ones I posted above. and I don't think its a spray chemical issue. to my knowledge there has never been anything sprayed in the vicinity of these plants in the 9 years ive been here. the clematis in question is the purple Jackmanii, shown in the middle of the fence.


Thumb of 2015-06-10/riverman123/91c273

[Last edited by riverman123 - Jun 9, 2015 9:51 PM (+)]
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Name: Greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
Rabbit Keeper Critters Allowed Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages
Herbs Region: Georgia Region: United States of America Native Plants and Wildflowers Dog Lover Composter
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greene
Jun 9, 2015 11:57 PM CST
That is a beautiful area, thank you. (I am slightly jealous.)

riverman123 said:
I don't think its a spray chemical issue. To my knowledge there has never been anything sprayed in the vicinity of these plants in the 9 years I've been here.


I can only assume that you mean nothing has been sprayed in your side of the fence. I'd be curious to know what is growing on the other side of the fence...perhaps there is a group of particularly heavy-feeding plants just on the other side; does that person use any sprays/chemicals/car wash, etc. that could be a contributing factor; is the neighbor watering excessively? Things like that.

When was the last time you had your soil tested/analyzed? Would it help to know exactly what's in the soil?



Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Jason
Gold Bar, Washington (Zone 8b)
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riverman123
Jun 10, 2015 4:56 AM CST
Actually, there are no neighbors on that side of our property. the other side of the fence is nothing but a gravel patch about 40 feet long, same length as the fence, that protrudes 15 feet out away from the fence. its just an empty area. it never gets used for anything, just a gravel patch with a few weeds and wildflowers here or there. next to it, 15 feet from the fence is the little road that winds through our neighborhood. i feel confident that this area is not playing a role in all this.

thanks for the nice compliment by the way! Thumbs up
springfield MO area (Zone 6a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier
Frillylily
Jun 10, 2015 7:04 AM CST
If you are in an area that has had excessive rain this spring, and if the soil in that area of the garden does not drain well (who has soil like that anyway?!), the plants may simply be unhappy because of their wet feet. If the soil drains too well, they may be nutrient depleted as the water drains through the soil.
Clematis are also known for getting clematis wilt. It is a fungus I believe. Maybe you should post some pics of the clem on the clematis forum, someone there may be able to id more possessively if that is a fungus you are dealing with. I have had it before on mine. They promptly turn brown and die. Well I say die, but the tops died off, then it regrew again. So even if you think the clem is dead at some point, don't be too hasty to toss it, because it may not be. I would probably spray with a fungicide as a precaution and the fertilize the area.
Name: Greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
Rabbit Keeper Critters Allowed Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages
Herbs Region: Georgia Region: United States of America Native Plants and Wildflowers Dog Lover Composter
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greene
Jun 10, 2015 8:04 AM CST
Thank You! Thanks, at least now we have ruled out anything coming from beyond the fence.
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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dyzzypyxxy
Jun 10, 2015 9:01 AM CST
If it is an unused area with access to a road, some idiot might have dumped something there, though. Wouldn't hurt to walk the fence line on the other side and smell and observe if there's any sign of anything. Maybe even take a soil sample or two from the other side right next to the fence?

The soil test kit you get at HD or Lowe's will do 10 separate tests for you for $10.

I'm all about trying the simple things first. I do think you need to put down some balanced fert, and maybe give them a watering can of dissolved Epsom Salts each. About 2tbsp. to a gallon of water. It's so soluble that in places where there is a lot of rain it gets depleted from the soil really quickly. In summer here, I add it to my spray for orchids and they get some almost every day.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." โ€“Winston Churchill
Name: Tiffany
Opp, AL (Zone 8b)
Houseplants Organic Gardener Composter Region: Gulf Coast Miniature Gardening Native Plants and Wildflowers
Bulbs Foliage Fan Tropicals Butterflies Garden Sages Cactus and Succulents
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purpleinopp
Jun 10, 2015 9:12 AM CST
I share Elaine's suspicions, an untended gravel area should have all kinds of volunteer plants growing, unless someone is periodically poisoning or mowing them, or there's enough vehicle &/or foot traffic to keep seedlings trampled, unable to grow up.
๐Ÿ‘€๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜‚ - SMILE! -โ˜บ๐Ÿ˜Žโ˜ปโ˜ฎ๐Ÿ‘ŒโœŒโˆžโ˜ฏ๐Ÿฃ๐Ÿฆ๐Ÿ”๐Ÿ๐Ÿฏ๐Ÿพ
๐Ÿ€๐Ÿ‘’โ˜€๐Ÿ„๐Ÿ๐ŸŒฑ๐ŸŒฟ๐ŸŒด๐ŸŽ„๐Ÿ‘ฃ๐ŸŒต๐ŸŒทโš˜๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒป๐ŸŒฝ๐Ÿก๐Ÿƒ๐Ÿ‚๐ŸŒพ๐ŸŒฟ๐Ÿโฆโง ๐Ÿƒ๐Ÿ๐Ÿ‚๐ŸŒพ๐ŸŒป๐ŸŒบ๐ŸŒธ๐ŸŒผ๐ŸŒน๐ŸŒณ๐ŸŒฒ
โ˜•๐Ÿ‘“ The only way to succeed is to try.
springfield MO area (Zone 6a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier
Frillylily
Jun 10, 2015 9:39 AM CST
Do all of the plants show signs of stress or only the clems mostly? If the area on the other side of the fence has been contaminated with something, I would think most if not all of the plants would be suffering.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
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sooby
Jun 10, 2015 11:56 AM CST
It looks as though the honeysuckle on the roof overhang (?) also has some yellow leaves. This plant doesn't appear to originate from near the fence line? Of course it could be something completely different on that one, like powdery mildew for example.
Name: Jason
Gold Bar, Washington (Zone 8b)
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riverman123
Jun 14, 2015 9:00 AM CST
i think I found, or was told, the underlying issue that's causing my clematis plants to turn yellow!! and of course, the simplest reason is always the culprit... due to the layout of our yard, with a large Japanese maple on one side, a huge ponderosa pine on the other, as well as the 6 foot tall cedar fence coming into play, as well as 100 foot fir, hemlock, and spruce conifers in our heavily wooded neighborhood, the lower leaves get very little direct sunlight. which I was aware of. however, I was thinking the upper leaves would sustain the lower ones because they're in full sun, because they're on top of a flat, horizontal trellis that runs the length of the fence... I called our local master gardener, hes been a Seattle celebrity for nearly 40 years, he has a TV show as well as a weekly radio call in show. as soon as I said, "the lower leaves get very little sun." he says, "Oh, that's it!" he didnt even bring up soil issues or lack of nutrient issues. he suggested that if I choose to keep the plants in this location that I allow the hydrangeas to grow a little taller in order to hide the unsightly bare lower stems.
springfield MO area (Zone 6a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier
Frillylily
Jun 14, 2015 12:00 PM CST
so does it bloom like that? I have an area that gets quite a bit of shade and didn't think a clem would bloom there?

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