Gardening for Wildlife forum: I don't quite understand the purpose of this forum.

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Name: Kate
Holmes Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Not all those who wander are lost.
Bromeliad Cactus and Succulents Orchids Foliage Fan Organic Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader
Region: Florida Tropicals Xeriscape
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karmatree
Jun 20, 2015 5:27 AM CST
I thought this was a "Gardening for Wildlife" forum, where we talk about supporting wildlife through the way we use our properties. Maybe it should be "Gardening For Only The Wildlife I Think Is Cute or Pretty".

I see a common pattern of animosity towards any creature that invades "your" territory or that instills fear..."Kill it, it's a nuisance." It is unacceptable to kill a snake because it's poisonous. Who is more deadly, the snake or you? You killed the snake and you aren't even on its menu. It is like our fear of sharks, but who is more murderous? We kill millions of sharks a year.

Is it so surprising that people are experiencing more contact with wild animals? Is it so surprising that a coyote would snatch a woman's dog right from the doorstep? It was probably starving, desperate. We are like a festering disease, just invading everywhere, spraying the world with pesticides, laying animal traps everywhere, cutting down trees, bulldozing habitats.

No wild animal is a pest or a nuisance. Not even the invasive creatures. They are here because of us. Everything is our doing and the attitude of fear and entitlement is outrageous. Not every predator that shows up in the daytime is rabid and should be killed. And the ones that are is due to the unbridled pet population and irresponsible owners who don't vaccinate. Once again, back to the destructive human habits.

If you all want to "Garden for Wildlife," do it a favor and treat them all equally. If you're afraid of critters, then don't have a garden. No creature deserves to die for your fear.
"A garden isn't meant to be useful. It's for joy." - Rumer Godden
Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
Vegetable Grower Garden Photography Hybridizer Spiders! Annuals Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
keithp2012
Jun 20, 2015 9:33 AM CST
I'm not one of those people I let all animals in my yard. Raccoons and Opossums are hated where I live (probably because all the people equals lots of food/trash) but nonetheless if they are passing through doing their own thing they should be left alone to live like they've been doing.
Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
Seed Starter Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Frogs and Toads Garden Procrastinator Cottage Gardener Birds
Annuals Hummingbirder Region: Indiana Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies
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jimard8
Jun 20, 2015 2:13 PM CST
I don't like Raccoons or Possums following me or getting into things , I do not poison or Kill any (not as of yet anyway) My Frogs and Toads , many , I enjoy , Not a chemical exterminator either . As previous . the animals do their thing , let them , Tree Toad Sunbathing earlier this season Confused Confused Confused
Thumb of 2015-06-20/jimard8/50b0bc

In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
Name: Kate
Holmes Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Not all those who wander are lost.
Bromeliad Cactus and Succulents Orchids Foliage Fan Organic Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader
Region: Florida Tropicals Xeriscape
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karmatree
Jun 21, 2015 5:16 AM CST
If your yard is kept hygienic, it's not likely they will bother you. They don't like people, just their trash, as Keith mentioned.

Yesterday I saw a man in line at Home Depot with 5 liters of Bug-Be-Gone spray. Then, a woman squawking about "Why don't you carry a weed killer/fertilizer application all in one!?" Try pulling the weeds, lady. Yes, with your hands.

So depressing, the ignorance in this country.
"A garden isn't meant to be useful. It's for joy." - Rumer Godden
Name: Keith
West Babylon, NY (Zone 7a)
Region: United States of America Winter Sowing Plays in the sandbox Birds Native Plants and Wildflowers Tomato Heads
Vegetable Grower Garden Photography Hybridizer Spiders! Annuals Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
keithp2012
Jun 21, 2015 11:38 PM CST
karmatree said:If your yard is kept hygienic, it's not likely they will bother you. They don't like people, just their trash, as Keith mentioned.

Yesterday I saw a man in line at Home Depot with 5 liters of Bug-Be-Gone spray. Then, a woman squawking about "Why don't you carry a weed killer/fertilizer application all in one!?" Try pulling the weeds, lady. Yes, with your hands.

So depressing, the ignorance in this country.


I had to laugh about the weeds. Pulling them eliminates the whole plant in seconds, weed killer takes days IF it works. Pulling is time consuming but if you can keep up with it it's more effective.
Name: Kate
Holmes Beach, FL (Zone 10a)
Not all those who wander are lost.
Bromeliad Cactus and Succulents Orchids Foliage Fan Organic Gardener Plant and/or Seed Trader
Region: Florida Tropicals Xeriscape
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karmatree
Jun 22, 2015 4:11 AM CST
Agreed. If you keep up with it, it's easy, too. I get my Zen Moments having a seat by my plants and picking little weed seedlings out of there. Isn't it part of the whole plant experience??
"A garden isn't meant to be useful. It's for joy." - Rumer Godden
springfield MO area (Zone 6a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier
Frillylily
Jun 22, 2015 8:16 AM CST
well how are you going to pull weeds out of a 1 acre lawn?

I don't kill snakes in my yard, but I would if it were poison. I have tiny poodles and also a mentally handicapped child who have no idea that poison snakes are to be avoided. If my son got bit, he wouldn't even have a way to tell me. And I'm pretty sure a 4 lb dog would not live after being bitten by a venomous snake.
I had a brown recluse spider in my son's toy box yesterday in the house. I am spraying all along the outside foundation of my house and setting off bombs under my crawl space. We have had a LOT of rain this year so I think that is why the critters have been so bad lately. I came in one morning after receiving 5 inches of rain and finding my crawl space flooded, to find jillions of ants all over my kitchen. I poisoned them. Ants are fine outside -but not in my house. The mosquitoes now are numerous from all the rain I guess. I try my best to use as little chemicals as possible, but I do protect my home, pets, and kids. Japanese Beetles have ate all the leaves off my fruit trees. I finally sprayed them to save what I could. There are hundreds of them. What am I going to do, let them eat the foliage off of everything? It is pretty nutty to think hundreds of flying beetles can be picked off by hand on 8-10 ft tall trees Shrug!
springfield MO area (Zone 6a)
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Identifier
Frillylily
Jun 22, 2015 8:22 AM CST
I think the purpose of the forum is to garden for desirable wildlife.
That would be butterflies, native song birds, lady bugs, native reptiles and amphibians, non-venomous snakes ect. Some people like to attract deer, turkey or rabbits or feed squirrels.

But really, who in their right mind would 'garden' purposely to attract venomous snakes, rats, fleas, ticks, moles, racoons (which are destructive and can sometimes carry disease), japanese beetles, poison spiders... oh, yes, I can't wait for this wildlife to invade my back yard! Rolling my eyes.



Name: Alex Junge
MN st paul, (Zone 4a)
Plantsmylove
Jun 22, 2015 9:21 AM CST
I agree Japanese beetles are terrible. but then again I like raccoons so its a mix for me I guess.


Name: Cinda
Indiana Zone 5b
Dances with Dirt
Native Plants and Wildflowers Critters Allowed Garden Procrastinator Herbs Vegetable Grower Plant Identifier
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gardengus
Jun 22, 2015 11:02 AM CST
I have read some of your posts and hear your passion.
Welcome!
For the most part this form is Gardening ""FOR'' Wildlife forum , but some occasions do come up where animals do become a danger and should be removed from the possible deadly interaction with humans . Just as I remove deadly plants from my pasture land. I guess you would not be too happy to have a 6 foot alligator in your back yard , and if you didn't mind your neighbors with small kids or pets might.

So yes there is some discussion on how to deal with undesirable animals, hopefully we can educate each other on the best way to live together when possible.
Keep believing ,hoping,and loving
all else is just existing.
Name: Linda
Medina Co., TX (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Salvias Herbs Bluebonnets Native Plants and Wildflowers Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Forum moderator Purslane Hummingbirder Cat Lover Butterflies Birds
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LindaTX8
Jun 22, 2015 11:28 AM CST

Moderator

Most people have our difficulties, caused by wildlife, as well as our interest in learning about wildlife and our desire to have some around. I've been know to relocate certain animals that truly destroy parts of my yard, not to mention killing a few insects that are just too harmful...like ticks for example, if I find any, they're not going to survive. I swat the skeeters that are trying to bite me and try to prevent their development by emptying or changing out anything that contains water. I'd really love to be rid of wild hogs, a nonnative species which are very harmful to the land and other wildlife, occasionally attacking humans. But that would be extremely difficult. And for the most part, I just use a live-and-let-live philosophy. Gardening organically is a gift to ourselves and all wildlife, but everyone has choices, not all will choose that way.
I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority. E. B.White
Integrity can never be taken. It can only be given, and I wasn't going to give it up to these people. Gary Mowad
Name: Deb
Pacific Northwest (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Organic Gardener Herbs Dragonflies Dog Lover Keeper of Poultry
Birds Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Plant Identifier
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Bonehead
Jun 23, 2015 9:20 AM CST
My interest in this forum is to improve the habitat for my native wildlife within my own property. Introducing native plants, providing water and shelter, that type of thing. I am not a vegetarian, not a hunter ( but not opposed to it), enjoy fishing and crabbing, and have raised lots of animals for the freezer. None seem mutually exclusive to me.



I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
Name: Jennifer Temple
Welland, Niagara Region, Ontar (Zone 6b)
Abrasive personality,corrosive even
Organic Gardener Birds Butterflies Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Native Plants and Wildflowers Bee Lover
Region: Canadian
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jenniferatemple
Aug 24, 2015 3:11 PM CST
I feed squirrels, all kinds of birds and certainly was very disappointed when our raccoons left the area! I studied quite a few books about rats, (know thy enemy) and the big thing I learned: rats will not live where there are coons! Poison will never work more than a few months because the rats very quickly develop immunity. If it's one or the other, I choose coons, its easier to keep them out of my living space.

But heck, I trap mice in the kitchen sink to avoid killing them. I hate to kill if there is any other option. I put a little water in the bottom of a stopped up sink, add some bread crumbs and peanut butter to a plate and float it in the sink. Next morning, collect the mice and move them out to a field away from the house. When squirrels got into the house via my attic, I removed them and put coyote urine soaked rags in plastic containers all around the attic. They have not been back.

As for weeds in an acre of lawn, grow clover or some other attractive ground cover, don't poison the planet for temporary aesthetics. I have a small back yard lawn and pull weeds after every rain, they are easier to remove after a good soak. I plant my whole front yard with wild flowers in a grow as you please and whimsical fashion. I pull weed a lot in the spring and fall. The rest of the time they are too small to bother me.

A good question to ask one's self if there is a living thing where one does not want it, what would nature do? After all, a weed is a plant growing where it is not wanted and animals attend situations that we make attractive to them. We really can't afford to poison the earth that feeds us! Look what we are doing to bees and all the other pollinators. I tip my hat to you.
Keep in Harmony with People & Gardens
Name: Cinda
Indiana Zone 5b
Dances with Dirt
Native Plants and Wildflowers Critters Allowed Garden Procrastinator Herbs Vegetable Grower Plant Identifier
Organic Gardener Keeps Goats Garden Photography Cottage Gardener Composter Houseplants
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gardengus
Aug 24, 2015 4:01 PM CST
Smiling
Ok I know I'm in a weird frame of mind today ??

But how do you get a coyote to P on a rag?
I'm guessing you will say you can purchase coyote P , so then my head is trying to get around the collection method?
Maybe tiny urinals tied to trees in the woods? Blinking

I know I have had too much caffeine today Rolling my eyes.

Keep believing ,hoping,and loving
all else is just existing.
Name: Cinda
Indiana Zone 5b
Dances with Dirt
Native Plants and Wildflowers Critters Allowed Garden Procrastinator Herbs Vegetable Grower Plant Identifier
Organic Gardener Keeps Goats Garden Photography Cottage Gardener Composter Houseplants
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gardengus
Aug 24, 2015 4:03 PM CST
Oh

Sorry... I forgot to say Welcome! to ATP
And not everybody is crazy Smiling
Keep believing ,hoping,and loving
all else is just existing.
Name: Jennifer Temple
Welland, Niagara Region, Ontar (Zone 6b)
Abrasive personality,corrosive even
Organic Gardener Birds Butterflies Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Native Plants and Wildflowers Bee Lover
Region: Canadian
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jenniferatemple
Aug 24, 2015 5:11 PM CST
gardengus said: Smiling
Ok I know I'm in a weird frame of mind today ??

But how do you get a coyote to P on a rag?
I'm guessing you will say you can purchase coyote P , so then my head is trying to get around the collection method?
Maybe tiny urinals tied to trees in the woods? Blinking

I know I have had too much caffeine today Rolling my eyes.



Right! One buys coyote P! I, like you, can not imagine how they do it. My best guess was coyote kennels with some sort of drip pan. You can also get red fox P. Don't ask me, I just put my money down and the stuff worked. The squirrels, apparently, think where there is P, there is predator and do not want to come in for lunch.
Keep in Harmony with People & Gardens
Name: Jennifer Temple
Welland, Niagara Region, Ontar (Zone 6b)
Abrasive personality,corrosive even
Organic Gardener Birds Butterflies Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Native Plants and Wildflowers Bee Lover
Region: Canadian
Image
jenniferatemple
Aug 24, 2015 5:14 PM CST
gardengus said:Oh

Sorry... I forgot to say Welcome! to ATP
And not everybody is crazy Smiling


Thank You! I tip my hat to you. Thank You!! It's always nice to feel welcome!
Keep in Harmony with People & Gardens
Name: Deb
Pacific Northwest (Zone 8b)
Region: Pacific Northwest Organic Gardener Herbs Dragonflies Dog Lover Keeper of Poultry
Birds Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Plant Identifier
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Bonehead
Aug 24, 2015 6:37 PM CST
Warm welcome from the Pacific NW. I'm intrigued by your sink method for mice - might just give that a try in my basement.
I want to live in a world where the chicken can cross the road without its motives being questioned.
Name: Kim
Iowa (Zone 5a)
I kill ornamentals... on purpose.
Enjoys or suffers cold winters Spiders! Critters Allowed Birds Houseplants I helped beta test the first seed swap
Region: Nebraska Keeper of Poultry Rabbit Keeper Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Procrastinator Garden Ideas: Level 2
Chillybean
Aug 25, 2015 8:57 AM CST
jenniferatemple said:
But heck, I trap mice in the kitchen sink to avoid killing them. I hate to kill if there is any other option.


I have friends who trapped mice in a similar way when they had mice. They took them to a nearby public park. My husband prefers to deal with the holes that let the mice in. I would rather they stay outside to feed the raptors we have hanging around in the winter.

We used to do so many things to kill/remove wildlife that I regret it. It's been interesting, most of those things we found pests have benefits, not only as food for other animals. Moles give free aeration to the yard as they eat the grubs. Opossums can eat about 5, 000 ticks a year because of their meticulous cleaning habits and they cannot get rabies because their body temperature is too low. If they raid my bird feeders at night, I figure it is payment for all those ticks they consume in our pasture.

We were a little nervous early this summer, when we had too many rabbits and squinneys. Others wanted to deal with them, but I told them to just wait. We lost some cabbage and a rabbit started gnawing on a newly planted Serviceberry. We chicken wired those and had no further problem... and the populations dropped without us doing a thing.

We're starting to see more signs of deer, but unknowingly I planted things that repel them... they do not like strong scents as they need to smell for predators and I put Monarda all over the place for pollinators. Also, I am hoping they do more damage to the tree line. My husband doesn't want to get rid of it, but said he won't plant more. I want prairie and a tree line breaks that up the habitat.
Name: Linda
Medina Co., TX (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Salvias Herbs Bluebonnets Native Plants and Wildflowers Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Forum moderator Purslane Hummingbirder Cat Lover Butterflies Birds
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LindaTX8
Aug 25, 2015 12:39 PM CST

Moderator

I wish they'd develop some artificial substitute for predator pee. I won't buy anything like that because I read that they keep the animals in cages, under cruel conditions, including depriving them of enough water in order to concentrate their urine.
I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority. E. B.White
Integrity can never be taken. It can only be given, and I wasn't going to give it up to these people. Gary Mowad

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