Ask a Question forum: back to those zinnias

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Name: david sevitt
jerusalem israel
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davidsevit
Jul 31, 2015 10:23 AM CST
three years ago with our family visiting bulgaria i saw some zinnias about 1.5 meters tall in a courtyard of a monastery.
i still have that impression in my mind and want to know if it is a phenomina of the microclimate?
is it worth contacting a bulgarian nursery.....
or specifically contact the monastery for further info....
so what is my question?
i also want tall zinnias.
if i go back to the seeds in packets again story i would rather travell back to the monastery to pick up some seeds....
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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dyzzypyxxy
Jul 31, 2015 4:00 PM CST
Write to the monastery and see if they will send you some seeds. They may have developed an extra-tall variety.

Have you determined yet whether you are allowed to import seeds by mail to Israel? If you can, I'm sure you will be able to find some folks who will send you seeds of any type of zinnia you want on this site.

Tall zinnias would be quite top-heavy once they are in bloom. I can visualize tall zinnias growing in a walled garden of a monastery where they would get lots of sun and care, and also would be protected from the wind by the walls.

Stone walls also collect heat during the day and keep the plants warmer at night so this would extend their growing season - they could start plants earlier, and keep them going into the fall weather longer. This is known as a "micro-climate".
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Name: ZenMan
rural Kansas (Zone 5b)
Kansas 5b
Annuals Keeper of Poultry Enjoys or suffers cold winters Bee Lover Dragonflies Garden Photography
Hybridizer Region: United States of America Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 2
ZenMan
Jul 31, 2015 5:29 PM CST
Hi David,

" three years ago with our family visiting Bulgaria I saw some zinnias about 1.5 meters tall in a courtyard of a monastery. "

I like to say that here in the "States" that we are still "inching toward the metric system." I guess we won't be close to full adoption until we can say that "we are centimetering toward the metric system."

So, about those tall zinnias. A meter is about 39 inches, so you saw zinnias that were about 59 inches tall. That is pretty close to 5 feet tall. I have grown many zinnias that were taller than that from commercial varieties, like Giant Cactus Flowered, Giants of California, and Benary's Giants. Just plant them a little close together and give them lots of soluble nutrients and they can grow 6 feet high (about 1.8 meters) and still look good.

How high can zinnias grow? The Guinness World Records 2008 book https://books.google.com/books?id=rbZMg7CGnKYC&pg=PA214&lpg=... lists the record highest zinnia in 2004 as 12 ft 6 in, or in the metric system 3.81 meters. I am not sure, but I think that record has been broken since then. But, in any case, zinnias can grow much taller than those you saw in Bulgaria.

" if i go back to the seeds in packets again story i would rather travel back to the monastery to pick up some seeds.... "

My recommendation would be to do a thorough search for online sources of zinnia seeds in Israel. Benary's Giants and/or Giants of California would be candidate tall varieties. I personally don't mind if zinnias grow tall, and I avoid short zinnias, but my primary interest is the blooms themselves.

ZM
I tip my hat to you.
Name: david sevitt
jerusalem israel
Image
davidsevit
Jul 31, 2015 5:33 PM CST
dyzzypyxxy said:Write to the monastery and see if they will send you some seeds. They may have developed an extra-tall variety.

Have you determined yet whether you are allowed to import seeds by mail to Israel? If you can, I'm sure you will be able to find some folks who will send you seeds of any type of zinnia you want on this site.

Tall zinnias would be quite top-heavy once they are in bloom. I can visualize tall zinnias growing in a walled garden of a monastery where they would get lots of sun and care, and also would be protected from the wind by the walls.

Stone walls also collect heat during the day and keep the plants warmer at night so this would extend their growing season - they could start plants earlier, and keep them going into the fall weather longer. This is known as a "micro-climate".


i have not checked the mailing legality....
i may start by phoning the monastery....
Name: david sevitt
jerusalem israel
Image
davidsevit
Jul 31, 2015 5:39 PM CST
ZenMan said:Hi David,

" three years ago with our family visiting Bulgaria I saw some zinnias about 1.5 meters tall in a courtyard of a monastery. "

I like to say that here in the "States" that we are still "inching toward the metric system." I guess we won't be close to full adoption until we can say that "we are centimetering toward the metric system."

So, about those tall zinnias. A meter is about 39 inches, so you saw zinnias that were about 59 inches tall. That is pretty close to 5 feet tall. I have grown many zinnias that were taller than that from commercial varieties, like Giant Cactus Flowered, Giants of California, and Benary's Giants. Just plant them a little close together and give them lots of soluble nutrients and they can grow 6 feet high (about 1.8 meters) and still look good.

How high can zinnias grow? The Guinness World Records 2008 book https://books.google.com/books?id=rbZMg7CGnKYC&pg=PA214&lpg=... lists the record highest zinnia in 2004 as 12 ft 6 in, or in the metric system 3.81 meters. I am not sure, but I think that record has been broken since then. But, in any case, zinnias can grow much taller than those you saw in Bulgaria.

" if i go back to the seeds in packets again story i would rather travel back to the monastery to pick up some seeds.... "

My recommendation would be to do a thorough search for online sources of zinnia seeds in Israel. Benary's Giants and/or Giants of California would be candidate tall varieties. I personally don't mind if zinnias grow tall, and I avoid short zinnias, but my primary interest is the blooms themselves.

ZM
I tip my hat to you.


i have chrcked out the seed in packet in israel.....it is a new trend ...the lower the better....for garden containers......
talking about length......is it true that there are beans plants that can grow 5 meter tall?
Name: david sevitt
jerusalem israel
Image
davidsevit
Jul 31, 2015 5:41 PM CST
davidsevit said:

i have chrcked out the seed in packet in israel.....it is a new trend ...the lower the better....for garden containers......
talking about length......is it true that there are beans plants that can grow 5 meter tall?


Name: ZenMan
rural Kansas (Zone 5b)
Kansas 5b
Annuals Keeper of Poultry Enjoys or suffers cold winters Bee Lover Dragonflies Garden Photography
Hybridizer Region: United States of America Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 2
ZenMan
Jul 31, 2015 5:55 PM CST
Hi David,

" talking about length......is it true that there are beans plants that can grow 5 meter tall? "

That Guinness Records book lists 14.1 meters as the record tallest bean plant. I guess some very sick underfed bean plants could be only 5 meters tall, but people laugh at them and call them "shortie". Smiling

I personally would not want to be the one who had to pick the beans from the top of a 14 meter bean plant. You would need a firetruck with one of those super tall extendable ladders.

ZM
I tip my hat to you.
Name: david sevitt
jerusalem israel
Image
davidsevit
Jul 31, 2015 6:06 PM CST
ZenMan said:Hi David,

" talking about length......is it true that there are beans plants that can grow 5 meter tall? "

That Guinness Records book lists 14.1 meters as the record tallest bean plant. I guess some very sick underfed bean plants could be only 5 meters tall, but people laugh at them and call them "shortie". Smiling

I personally would not want to be the one who had to pick the beans from the top of a 14 meter bean plant. You would need a firetruck with one of those super tall extendable ladders.

ZM
I tip my hat to you.

do you mean that can find those beans.....besides bulgaria?
Name: ZenMan
rural Kansas (Zone 5b)
Kansas 5b
Annuals Keeper of Poultry Enjoys or suffers cold winters Bee Lover Dragonflies Garden Photography
Hybridizer Region: United States of America Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 2
ZenMan
Aug 1, 2015 12:34 PM CST
Hi David,

" do you mean that can find those beans.....besides bulgaria? "

Those record tall beans most likely did not come from Bulgaria. But, no, the record beans and record zinnias, and record plants in general, are not commercially available.

ZM
I tip my hat to you.
Name: Jean
Prairieville, LA (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier The WITWIT Badge Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Moonhowl
Aug 1, 2015 1:05 PM CST
Hi David.

You might find these sites of interest.

https://www.etsy.com/search?q=benarys+zinnia+seed&ship_to=IL

https://www.facebook.com/GenesisSeedsLtdIsrael
Name: david sevitt
jerusalem israel
Image
davidsevit
Aug 1, 2015 8:59 PM CST
ZenMan said:Hi David,

" do you mean that can find those beans.....besides bulgaria? "

Those record tall beans most likely did not come from Bulgaria. But, no, the record beans and record zinnias, and record plants in general, are not commercially available.

ZM
I tip my hat to you.


beside the humor....have you seen a very tall bean vine?
Name: david sevitt
jerusalem israel
Image
davidsevit
Aug 1, 2015 9:09 PM CST
Moonhowl said:Hi David.

You might find these sites of interest.

https://www.etsy.com/search?q=benarys+zinnia+seed&ship_to=IL

]https://www.facebook.com/GenesisSeedsLtdIsrael


thank you i will look through these sites
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
dyzzypyxxy
Aug 1, 2015 9:39 PM CST
Besides that it would be fun, of course, I can't really see the point of growing bean plants that are too tall for you to pick the beans from. Unless . . you live in a tall building and want to share your harvest with all the apartments above you, I guess. Nobody would get enough for a meal, though, I fear.

When you plant beans in a garden to produce food, you put stakes in the ground about as tall as you can reasonably reach, and when the beans climb to the tops of those stakes, they droop over and hang down where you can reach them again. Sometimes it even works to pinch off the growing tip of the stalk, and it will branch and be even more productive. But the idea of having to use a ladder to harvest my beans seems impractical and dangerous. (ladders being rather unsteady on soft ground).
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Name: david sevitt
jerusalem israel
Image
davidsevit
Aug 1, 2015 9:52 PM CST
dyzzypyxxy said:Besides that it would be fun, of course, I can't really see the point of growing bean plants that are too tall for you to pick the beans from. Unless . . you live in a tall building and want to share your harvest with all the apartments above you, I guess. Nobody would get enough for a meal, though, I fear.

When you plant beans in a garden to produce food, you put stakes in the ground about as tall as you can reasonably reach, and when the beans climb to the tops of those stakes, they droop over and hang down where you can reach them again. Sometimes it even works to pinch off the growing tip of the stalk, and it will branch and be even more productive. But the idea of having to use a ladder to harvest my beans seems impractical and dangerous. (ladders being rather unsteady on soft ground).


i work with children and many of my crazy ideas come from the thought that you are small and you look upwards to the unaccesable.wondering....how did it get up there....forget the usefullness
Name: ZenMan
rural Kansas (Zone 5b)
Kansas 5b
Annuals Keeper of Poultry Enjoys or suffers cold winters Bee Lover Dragonflies Garden Photography
Hybridizer Region: United States of America Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Garden Ideas: Level 2
ZenMan
Aug 1, 2015 10:46 PM CST
Hi David,

" ....have you seen a very tall bean vine? "

No, we grew our pole beans on a 6-foot fence and they quickly grew to the top of it and then grew along the fence. I am sure they would have easily grown to the top of a 12-foot fence, but they wouldn't have been in the same league with the record breaking beans. And, as Elaine pointed out, it would have been impractical to pick them at an excessive height.

" i work with children and many of my crazy ideas come from the thought that you are small and you look upwards to the unaccesable.wondering....how did it get up there....forget the usefullness "

I suppose that is why it is fun to fly a kite.

ZM
I tip my hat to you.
Name: david sevitt
jerusalem israel
Image
davidsevit
Aug 1, 2015 11:59 PM CST
ZenMan said:Hi David,

" ....have you seen a very tall bean vine? "

No, we grew our pole beans on a 6-foot fence and they quickly grew to the top of it and then grew along the fence. I am sure they would have easily grown to the top of a 12-foot fence, but they wouldn't have been in the same league with the record breaking beans. And, as Elaine pointed out, it would have been impractical to pick them at an excessive height.

" i work with children and many of my crazy ideas come from the thought that you are small and you look upwards to the unaccesable.wondering....how did it get up there....forget the usefullness "

I suppose that is why it is fun to fly a kite.

ZM
I tip my hat to you.


nice humor
Name: david sevitt
jerusalem israel
Image
davidsevit
Aug 2, 2015 12:25 AM CST
ZenMan said:Hi David,

" three years ago with our family visiting Bulgaria I saw some zinnias about 1.5 meters tall in a courtyard of a monastery. "

I like to say that here in the "States" that we are still "inching toward the metric system." I guess we won't be close to full adoption until we can say that "we are centimetering toward the metric system."

So, about those tall zinnias. A meter is about 39 inches, so you saw zinnias that were about 59 inches tall. That is pretty close to 5 feet tall. I have grown many zinnias that were taller than that from commercial varieties, like Giant Cactus Flowered, Giants of California, and Benary's Giants. Just plant them a little close together and give them lots of soluble nutrients and they can grow 6 feet high (about 1.8 meters) and still look good.

How high can zinnias grow? The Guinness World Records 2008 book https://books.google.com/books?id=rbZMg7CGnKYC&pg=PA214&lpg=... lists the record highest zinnia in 2004 as 12 ft 6 in, or in the metric system 3.81 meters. I am not sure, but I think that record has been broken since then. But, in any case, zinnias can grow much taller than those you saw in Bulgaria.

" if i go back to the seeds in packets again story i would rather travel back to the monastery to pick up some seeds.... "

My recommendation would be to do a thorough search for online sources of zinnia seeds in Israel. Benary's Giants and/or Giants of California would be candidate tall varieties. I personally don't mind if zinnias grow tall, and I avoid short zinnias, but my primary interest is the blooms themselves.

ZM
I tip my hat to you.


i propogated the zinnias this morning...there where some flowerheads that where in a more advanced process.those i did not touch.so now for how long to wait for changes and do you think i can still sow this year?
by the way i took from yellow male and touched purple female and took from purple male and touched yellow female....
i actually pinched the male with the tweezers is it not agresive for the plant?
i did not feel confident with the paint brush...a feeling that the material would not transfer.
the females are very fuzzy
my dahlias are blooming now......they where sown at the same time as the zinnias....is there any similarity in the propogation system between the dahlias and zinnias?
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
dyzzypyxxy
Aug 2, 2015 9:42 AM CST
Most people propagate dahlias by dividing the rhizomes when they die back in the fall. This is much easier and more dependable than trying to cross-pollinate and start new dahlias from seed. They would most likely take 2 or 3 years to bloom from seed.

Where you had a single rhizome when you planted them, when you dig them after the foliage is finished, you will find a clump of rhizomes which you can separate and plant next year. They must be dug up and kept indoors to prevent them from freezing. Just storing in a paper bag in a cool, dark place will be good.

I too work with children, at a vegetable garden on the grounds of the local elementary school. They truly are fascinated by how things grow, and we 'stretch' their imaginations by growing different colors and shapes of vegetables - yellow, white and striped tomatoes, a rainbow of carrots, purple and orange cauliflower, rose, purple and yellow beans.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Name: david sevitt
jerusalem israel
Image
davidsevit
Aug 2, 2015 10:19 AM CST
dyzzypyxxy said:Most people propagate dahlias by dividing the rhizomes when they die back in the fall. This is much easier and more dependable than trying to cross-pollinate and start new dahlias from seed. They would most likely take 2 or 3 years to bloom from seed.

Where you had a single rhizome when you planted them, when you dig them after the foliage is finished, you will find a clump of rhizomes which you can separate and plant next year. They must be dug up and kept indoors to prevent them from freezing. Just storing in a paper bag in a cool, dark place will be good.

I too work with children, at a vegetable garden on the grounds of the local elementary school. They truly are fascinated by how things grow, and we 'stretch' their imaginations by growing different colors and shapes of vegetables - yellow, white and striped tomatoes, a rainbow of carrots, purple and orange cauliflower, rose, purple and yellow beans.

my dahlias are from seeds.....you mean now they have developed a rhizome?
or there are different types of dahlias?
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
dyzzypyxxy
Aug 2, 2015 11:24 AM CST
You'll know when you dig them out in the fall, David. Perhaps yours are a different type than what I grew. I bought them as rhizomes. But if you do get rhizomes, they will start up and bloom faster next year for you.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill

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