1.i still cant understand the"late blooming plants" if a celosia is flowering now.....what does it mean it will keep on until autumn?
if i sow a celosia now....i presume it will survive the autumn cold....why is it called late blooming?
2.i am considering offering our bank to put plants there....inside.today outside it was 35 degrees...inside i froze(point a) in the winter they heat the place unbearably hot and dry(point b)
wich plant would like this crazy situation?

i am not talking about windowsills wich are a more normal task
3.what is the benefit of sowing plants for spring if it is so far a way(in september)
4i want to make home made planters from metal olive tins 10 litre each for spring bulbs.i am aware of the long term problem of rust....i am concerned with the weather problem cold winter....metal.....the principle is that when the blooming is more or less over i take all of the tins and put them in a corner downstairs untill the process is over(short term use) maybe i will poch holes in the sides for summer use after i have taken out the bulbs for storage
5.what is best to preserve zinnia seeds.....paper bags or sandwich nylon degradable bags

>> 5.what is best to preserve zinnia seeds.....paper bags or sandwich nylon degradable bags

As long as the seeds stay DRY, either one can work.

Also, if you are only storing seeds for one year, or maybe two years, and you don;t mind if their viability (% germination) goes down from 90% to 50%, almost any kind of storage that's reasonably dry and cool and non-varying will work out OK.

However, suppose you want to keep some seeds with high viability for 3, 4, 5 or more years.

If the air where you store them varies in humidity, or is ever much above 40% RH, , paper will let the humidity changes go right through and affect the seeds. That's very bad. If you want to store seeds for more than 1-2 years, they need stability and cool dryness.

Swings in humidity or temperature shorten the storage lifetime of seeds.
So plastic might be better in that case (if the seeds are very dry when you seal them away).

However:

If you put seeds into plastic and seal it before the seeds are dry, Dry, DRY, more humidity will keep coming out of the seeds. Air inside the plastic Zip-Loc will become more humid than 50% RH. Rot will start soon after that.

OK, dry the seeds below 50% RH before sealing them in plastic or glass. That slows down their metabolism so LESS humidity is released over time.

But remember that humidity KEEPS coming out of seeds, because they are metabolizing slowly. And they metabolize faster if their humidity is (say) 40-50% instead of 15% to 20%.

So dry those seeds below 20% RH before sealing them tight!

Fortunately, plastic does let humidity leak slowly right THROUGH thin plastic film. And those cheap "zippers" on Zip-Loc bags are NOT any kind of hermetic seal.

So even if you seal up some seeds that are only 30-40% RH dry, the extra humidity will keep coming OUT of the baggie IF you keep the air around the baggie really dry - like 20% or 15% RH.

Now we're talking about a desiccant, or living in a desert with constantly-low-humidity.

The desiccant and seeds have to be sealed together in some tight jar, or else the desiccant will try to pull the humidity out of the air in your house, yard and county ... until it uses up its capacity for water and is exhausted.

If you seal seeds and some desiccant into a jar, it doesn't matter whether you packed the seeds in paper or plastic. The very-dry-air in the jar will slowly pull excess humidity out THROUGH a plastic Zip-Loc baggie.

It will rapidly JERK excess humidity out of a paper envelope full of seeds, so don't seal seeds with desiccant until they are finished ripening and drying slowly on the vine.

http://garden.org/ideas/view/R...

http://garden.org/ideas/view/R...

I was trying to write an article about desiccants in general, but didn't have enough good photos, and then I left it unfinished as a blog entry

http://garden.org/blogs/view/R...

The short form is: get silica gel from a craft store that sells flower-drying supplies. Make small paper packets with a tablespoon of silica gel. For example, use a paper coin envelope.

Kew Royal Botanic Gardens Technical Information Sheets
http://www.kew.org/sites/defau...
"Seed life span approximately doubles for every 10% reduction in seed eRH."

Many other Kew Tech Info Sheets about seed collection and storage:
http://www.kew.org/science-con...

On the question of supplying plants for your bank, to grow indoors, let me just say it's going to be a big headache for you, David.

If they cool it excessively in the summer, and heat it too much in winter, then the air is just generally going to be very, very dry. Something like a succulent - Sanseveria comes to mind - is the best bet for a plant that might stay good looking for more than a few weeks in that environment. But, also every plant needs good light to keep healthy and growing. Do they have big windows or skylights at the bank?

About "late blooming" flowering plants: usually perennials like celosia and chrysanthemums come to mind. They fill in the late summer, into fall with some nice flowers, then generally die back almost to the ground, stay dormant through winter and jump right back up in spring, making an ever-larger clump. They're great value in flowering plants.

There are a few flowering plants that will go though winter, still putting up some flowers. Pansies come to mind, but they will fade out and possibly die in the hot, dry summer weather where you are.

Most people start seeds of perennials in the fall, for earlier bloom in the spring. But if you want to keep seedlings going through winter it takes special care, the right amount of watering, and protection from frost. This can be supplied easily if you don't have too many cold nights. Something as simple as a cardboard box put over the plants for the night will usually keep them from frost damage. Here, I drape my tender plants with special 'frost cloth' that breathes a bit, but traps enough heat rising from the ground to keep the temperature at least 10deg. F warmer than the outside air.


I usually remove it for the daytime to let the plants get maximum sun benefits, but probably have to cover everything about 5 nights per winter. We also have good humidity here most of the year, which also helps moderate the cold damage to plants.

RickCorey said:>> 5.what is best to preserve zinnia seeds.....paper bags or sandwich nylon degradable bags

As long as the seeds stay DRY, either one can work.

Also, if you are only storing seeds for one year, or maybe two years, and you don;t mind if their viability (% germination) goes down from 90% to 50%, almost any kind of storage that's reasonably dry and cool and non-varying will work out OK.

However, suppose you want to keep some seeds with high viability for 3, 4, 5 or more years.

If the air where you store them varies in humidity, or is ever much above 40% RH, , paper will let the humidity changes go right through and affect the seeds. That's very bad. If you want to store seeds for more than 1-2 years, they need stability and cool dryness.

Swings in humidity or temperature shorten the storage lifetime of seeds.
So plastic might be better in that case (if the seeds are very dry when you seal them away).

However:thank you for a long and informative answer......by the way the compost heap is very soggy ...i am less worried because of the teribly hot weather .but i think i will start a new one and let this one rest

If you put seeds into plastic and seal it before the seeds are dry, Dry, DRY, more humidity will keep coming out of the seeds. Air inside the plastic Zip-Loc will become more humid than 50% RH. Rot will start soon after that.

OK, dry the seeds below 50% RH before sealing them in plastic or glass. That slows down their metabolism so LESS humidity is released over time.

But remember that humidity KEEPS coming out of seeds, because they are metabolizing slowly. And they metabolize faster if their humidity is (say) 40-50% instead of 15% to 20%.

So dry those seeds below 20% RH before sealing them tight!

Fortunately, plastic does let humidity leak slowly right THROUGH thin plastic film. And those cheap "zippers" on Zip-Loc bags are NOT any kind of hermetic seal.

So even if you seal up some seeds that are only 30-40% RH dry, the extra humidity will keep coming OUT of the baggie IF you keep the air around the baggie really dry - like 20% or 15% RH.

Now we're talking about a desiccant, or living in a desert with constantly-low-humidity.

The desiccant and seeds have to be sealed together in some tight jar, or else the desiccant will try to pull the humidity out of the air in your house, yard and county ... until it uses up its capacity for water and is exhausted.

If you seal seeds and some desiccant into a jar, it doesn't matter whether you packed the seeds in paper or plastic. The very-dry-air in the jar will slowly pull excess humidity out THROUGH a plastic Zip-Loc baggie.

It will rapidly JERK excess humidity out of a paper envelope full of seeds, so don't seal seeds with desiccant until they are finished ripening and drying slowly on the vine.

http://garden.org/ideas/view/R...

http://garden.org/ideas/view/R...

I was trying to write an article about desiccants in general, but didn't have enough good photos, and then I left it unfinished as a blog entry

http://garden.org/blogs/view/R...

The short form is: get silica gel from a craft store that sells flower-drying supplies. Make small paper packets with a tablespoon of silica gel. For example, use a paper coin envelope.

Kew Royal Botanic Gardens Technical Information Sheets
http://www.kew.org/sites/defau...
"Seed life span approximately doubles for every 10% reduction in seed eRH."

Many other Kew Tech Info Sheets about seed collection and storage:
http://www.kew.org/science-con...

dyzzypyxxy said:On the question of supplying plants for your bank, to grow indoors, let me just say it's going to be a big headache for you, David.

If they cool it excessively in the summer, and heat it too much in winter, then the air is just generally going to be very, very dry. Something like a succulent - Sanseveria comes to mind - is the best bet for a plant that might stay good looking for more than a few weeks in that environment. But, also every plant needs good light to keep healthy and growing. Do they have big windows or skylights at the bank?

About "late blooming" flowering plants: usually perennials like celosia and chrysanthemums come to mind. They fill in the late summer, into fall with some nice flowers, then generally die back almost to the ground, stay dormant through winter and jump right back up in spring, making an ever-larger clump. They're great value in flowering plants.

There are a few flowering plants that will go though winter, still putting up some flowers. Pansies come to mind, but they will fade out and possibly die in the hot, dry summer weather where you are.

Most people start seeds of perennials in the fall, for earlier bloom in the spring. But if you want to keep seedlings going through winter it takes special care, the right amount of watering, and protection from frost. This can be supplied easily if you don't have too many cold nights. Something as simple as a cardboard box put over the plants for the night will usually keep them from frost damage. Here, I drape my tender plants with special 'frost cloth' that breathes a bit, but traps enough heat rising from the ground to keep the temperature at least 10deg. F warmer than the outside air.


I usually remove it for the daytime to let the plants get maximum sun benefits, but probably have to cover everything about 5 nights per winter. We also have good humidity here most of the year, which also helps moderate the cold damage to plants.

thank you for your answer.....my question was different....
what makes these annuals to be late bloomers?if they are already blooming now in mid summer? do they have some tolerance to cold more than others?although they flower in summer....or is it something to do with their place of origin?

Some plants are stimulated to bloom by day length, David. So they are small and just starting up in May when the day length would be right for bloom to start, but then must wait until the days get shorter in August or September for their next round of bloom. I believe chrysanthemums are this way. If you have the plants up to blooming size in the spring they might bloom, then stop during the long days in June/July.

Others are stimulated by temperature change, and some just take longer to mature to blooming size.

Btw, you don't need to "quote" each of our posts to answer.

I googled the late blooming question.
The answer seems to be any plant that blooms in autumn is considered a late blooming plant.
Even if it starts blooming earlier than autumn.

the trick with crysanthemums is popular here.and i know it is related to hours of light.
thanks elaine it sounds logical.
also thank you margaret

Margaret, your super-duper orchid mix shipped out yesterday.

davidsevit said:1.i still cant understand the"late blooming plants" if a celosia is flowering now.....what does it mean it will keep on until autumn?
if i sow a celosia now....i presume it will survive the autumn cold....why is it called late blooming?
2.i am considering offering our bank to put plants there....inside.today outside it was 35 degrees...inside i froze(point a) in the winter they heat the place unbearably hot and dry(point b)
wich plant would like this crazy situation?

i am not talking about windowsills wich are a more normal task
3.what is the benefit of sowing plants for spring if it is so far a way(in september)
4i want to make home made planters from metal olive tins 10 litre each for spring bulbs.i am aware of the long term problem of rust....i am concerned with the weather problem cold winter....metal.....the principle is that when the blooming is more or less over i take all of the tins and put them in a corner downstairs untill the process is over(short term use) maybe i will poch holes in the sides for summer use after i have taken out the bulbs for storage
5.what is best to preserve zinnia seeds.....paper bags or sandwich nylon degradable bags

Some good answers already, but some unanswered questions yet...
Celosia... Amaranth sp?
May bloom now, and spend the rest of the growing period setting viable seed... And depending on the rainfall.... May rebloom.
As a hot weather annual, I wouldn't expect the plants to continue growing after the temps drop near frost.

Regarding "bank"...
Do you mean next to street?
Or where you save your $?

Regarding sowing indoors...
Strictly something we do for especial long season plants that we want to get a jump on the season with.
Like tomatoes and eggplant.
Although... My season is long enough that I sow my tomato seed outside after danger of frost... And the tomatoes produce... And there will still be growing season left after they've pretty much played out.

Starting indoors is for people with short seasons...

35 degrees F? Or C?
You froze... Around here.. I've got to put on a winter coat every time I go indoors... Everybody is running those air conditioners, and my body is adapted to the triple digit heat (Fahrenheit)...

People start seeds indoors when spring is like 6 weeks away... So... You wouldn't want to start seeds in the autumn.

I was curious about the 35 degree outside temperature. I found a site with weather data for Jerusalem and I'm not seeing anything close to 35 degrees so you must be using Celsius; yes, 35 C is very hot. Your temperatures in Jerusalem are similar to where I live in Savannah, Georgia.
http://www.timeanddate.com/wea...

Plants in the bank:
My experience with live plants indoors at a business office or bank is this:
You will need to do all the work to care for the plants; watering, pinching off dead leaves and flowers, checking for insects, etc.
You will need to have at least two sets of plants as you will need to constantly rotate the plants...take the plants out and put in new plants probably about once a month. The employees of the bank will not care for the plants and will expect the plants to always look perfect. Also, you will need to use some sterile planting medium so there will be no insects introduced into the bank building. Bank employees and customers would most likely enjoy seeing plants in bloom or at least plants with interesting foliage. It will be a very big job for you.

I have found that Pothos are very forgiving plants, meaning that they can adapt to indoor environment better than some other plants. The Golden Pothos/Epipremnum aureum is very pretty.

There are many other good choices for indoor plants in a bank (depending on the available light and watering schedule) but I don't know if you can grow the plants from seed. It might be better to buy plants, take cuttings to increase the number of plants.

>> Starting indoors is for people with short seasons...

And for impatient people who want the EARLIEST POSSIBLE vegetables or blooms.

Starting indoors or under plastic can also help to protect small seedlings from slugs (they LOVE Delphinium seedlings but leave big plants alone). Or insects, seed-eating birds, and seed-bed-peeing cats.

I also keep losing all my peas to rot if I start them outdoors too early (cold wet clay and rain every day). Pre-soaking, pre-germinating or even starting in guttering under plastic solves the early-rot problem.

If I were to place a plant into a windowsill at the mentioned bank with those crazy temperatures, I would get a ZZ or Zamioculcas zamiifolia! I used to keep a plant for years at work in a large West window and it grew beautifully and always looked great! In time it filled out the whole window. A word of advice, don't listen to people which tell you not to water it. I did not let it dry out and it responded by always shooting out new growth and flowering. That was a fun and showy plant! And easy to care for!

I have been thinking about the metal olive tins...I think it is a good idea to use the olive tins as planters for bulbs, and a good way to re-use items which would otherwise become trash. Yes, you will need to use a hammer and a large nail to make some drainage holes in the bottom of the cans.

Do you have any place to get some bubble wrap? Some people line the inside of the metal pots with one or two layers of bubble wrap; this helps to insulate the soil from temperature extremes.

stone said:

Some good answers already, but some unanswered questions yet...
Celosia... Amaranth sp?
May bloom now, and spend the rest of the growing period setting viable seed... And depending on the rainfall.... May rebloom.
As a hot weather annual, I wouldn't expect the plants to continue growing after the temps drop near frost.

Regarding "bank"...
Do you mean next to street?
Or where you save your $?

Regarding sowing indoors...
Strictly something we do for especial long season plants that we want to get a jump on the season with.
Like tomatoes and eggplant.
Although... My season is long enough that I sow my tomato seed outside after danger of frost... And the tomatoes produce... And there will still be growing season left after they've pretty much played out.

Starting indoors is for people with short seasons...i have still alot to learn about preparing for winter....here there is a common site in banks$ 40\40\120 centimeters containers with hydroponic plants in them.....they always look pathetic.think of the temperture of the water inside a container at night when people have left the bank.in winter....start-up-an under container heater to preserve normal warmth.how about like in aquariums a small device to heat the water?

35 degrees F? Or C?
You froze... Around here.. I've got to put on a winter coat every time I go indoors... Everybody is running those air conditioners, and my body is adapted to the triple digit heat (Fahrenheit)...

People start seeds indoors when spring is like 6 weeks away... So... You wouldn't want to start seeds in the autumn.

i visited your garden.beautifully pictured by seasons.

a picture of the result of sowing seeds of vegetables that did not succeed on the compost heap....so i sowed them in these 2 very shallow containers.if i give them extra nutrition? is that a good way to let them grow to full maturity?they are like fildfire.sometime i water them twice a day.it was a spontanuos act of frustration reacting to the failure of the shady compost heap.


4 types of coleus(not from seed)my intention is to preserve some small cuttings when it gets to cool for them(and try to go through the winter some how with them somewhere(maybe in tel aviv) and when i get more flowers on stalks i will try the propogation system by seeds.preserve them and sow as soon as winter is getting over(maybe a little bit before in a hot house)

two beautiful decorative pumpkins ......should i leave them on the plant as long as there is green in the stems?
the leaves are getting powdery i am afraid my other plants will be affected.



two beautiful zinnias i bought as plants ...i tryed to pollinate them a feww weeks ago...waiting for them to die off naturally.(for future seeds)

On your plants in the shallow planter, well big plants that need lots of water and nutrition might make it to maturity in there, but you are in for a lot of work to keep them going. They just can't grow a big enough root system to feed all the growth that the sun and warm weather are stimulating. So . . . the answer is "maybe".

Your Coleus look amazing! Yes, you will be able to keep cuttings going on a windowsill indoors through the winter, I would think. I have cuttings of Coleus that have grown and flowered in a glass of water. Personally, I'd forget the idea of collecting seeds and just propagate them from cuttings. You can put 5 or 6 cuttings in a small jar of water. Seedlings take a lot of care and attention, too.

Your pumpkins are really pretty. Traditionally, pumpkins get the most sugar into the flesh if you leave them on the vine until the vine dies. But if you are only going to use them for decoration, you can pick them now and get rid of the powdery vines. You're right, that powdery mildew will spread to any other pumpkin, squash, melon or cucumber plant nearby. They are very susceptible. Housekeeping (taking off any leaves that show the fungus) is the best way to keep the other plants clean.

You can also spray a solution of 1/2tsp. baking soda to a liter of water to prevent the spread of that fungus. Many plants aren't receptive to it anyway, but the ones that are, you can make the surface of the leaves not welcome the spores with this solution.

dyzzypyxxy said:On your plants in the shallow planter, well big plants that need lots of water and nutrition might make it to maturity in there, but you are in for a lot of work to keep them going. They just can't grow a big enough root system to feed all the growth that the sun and warm weather are stimulating. So . . . the answer is "maybe".

Your Coleus look amazing! Yes, you will be able to keep cuttings going on a windowsill indoors through the winter, I would think. I have cuttings of Coleus that have grown and flowered in a glass of water. Personally, I'd forget the idea of collecting seeds and just propagate them from cuttings. You can put 5 or 6 cuttings in a small jar of water. Seedlings take a lot of care and attention, too.

Your pumpkins are really pretty. Traditionally, pumpkins get the most sugar into the flesh if you leave them on the vine until the vine dies. But if you are only going to use them for decoration, you can pick them now and get rid of the powdery vines. You're right, that powdery mildew will spread to any other pumpkin, squash, melon or cucumber plant nearby. They are very susceptible. Housekeeping (taking off any leaves that show the fungus) is the best way to keep the other plants clean.

You can also spray a solution of 1/2tsp. baking soda to a liter of water to prevent the spread of that fungus. Many plants aren't receptive to it anyway, but the ones that are, you can make the surface of the leaves not welcome the spores with this solution.

thank you for your detailed and knowledgeable answer.i am learning alot from trial.
the coleus story......only if i keep the water in the jar warm enough i think they might survive our winter.?????
on a high shelf????isnt soil better for warming the roots?
what happens if the vegetable plants do not reach maturity......for example yhere are many flowers on most of them?
will they start the process of turning into a veg before time? so what? i will get less vegs or less quality vegs?
i am not into sustainablity yet so i am not depending on living off this crop......although i have in mind to start in autumn something in that direction......
i will spray the leaves
the window sill is the coldest place in our house at night........

I agree that the windowsill is not always a good place for plants. The plants may received some sun during the day but they are also exposed to the cold temperatures coming through the un-insulated glass and if there are air leaks around the window the wind is like an ice cold blow torch.

If you can locate the plants on a table near the window and place a mirror to face the window, the mirror will direct some of the sunlight toward the plants.

Since the window sill is a cold place in your home, do you have fluorescent lights in your house? If so, you can put the plants (or the jar of water with cuttings) on a high place such as the top of a shelf or top of the refrigerator so the plants can be closer to the light. For example, in my house I have full-spectrum fluorescent lights on the kitchen ceiling, so during the winter I put my plants on top of the refrigerator, on shelves and on the floor. Each day I rotate the location of the plants so each will get some good light to keep them alive. During the winter months the kitchen is the warmest place in my house; it also has less cold drafts of air as it is far away from the front door.

It is pretty easy and not too expensive to simply purchase heavy-duty, wire mesh shelving. There are several reputable companies that make it. I have lots of it lining the walls of my garage and some of it is 8' tall, 5' wide, and has three shelves spaced approximately 18" apart. You can then mount/hang 4' fluorescent fixtures wherever you want to. The T5HO fixtures produce all the light you'll ever need and you can use 6500K and/or 4000K tubes to grow anything.