Daylilies forum: Is this crown rot?

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Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
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cybersix
Aug 27, 2015 10:02 AM CST
I just took off two leaves from one DL, they were bending and starting to dry.
The final part looks white and brown, humid.
Is it normal?
Thanks for looking!
Thumb of 2015-08-27/cybersix/2f06ed

Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
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sooby
Aug 27, 2015 1:01 PM CST
Are these outer leaves? If the inner leaves are not wilted it's not likely crown rot.
Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
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cybersix
Aug 27, 2015 1:28 PM CST
Yes, these are outer leaves. The inner leaves aro showing a little of interveinal chlorosis and as I posted some days ago, the youngest are floppy. Is that what you mean by wilted?
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com
Name: Maryl
Oklahoma (Zone 7a)
Cat Lover Roses Daylilies Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Cactus and Succulents
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Maryl
Aug 27, 2015 2:37 PM CST
The easiest way for me to tell if a fan that's not looking too healthy is about to bite the dust from crown rot is to give the fan a gentle tug. If it's crown rot, the fan will feel like it's pulling away from the crown (and indeed might). You may want to do this first to a known healthy fan to feel the difference.............Maryl
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Aug 27, 2015 2:41 PM CST
I didn't realize the outer leaves were from the one with flopped leaves. Have those inner leaves got any more limp? Can you repost the earlier picture here and add one taken tomorrow of the flopped middle leaves for comparison? If you look in between the floppy leaves can you see any smaller leaves emerging inside?

Edit: cross posted with Maryl. That's a very good suggestion, although sometimes the inner leaves here have rotted above the crown (unrelated to crown rot but usually a spring thing, maybe related to spring sickness) although it can also happen with certain pesticide applications.
[Last edited by sooby - Aug 27, 2015 2:47 PM (+)]
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Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
Image
cybersix
Aug 27, 2015 2:47 PM CST
Maryl - Many thanks, I will try tomorrow (I'm scared already by now to find out something I don't like)

Sue - the bending leaves are the middle (youngest) I'm rewriting it just to be sure I wrote correctly in the previous post.
The outer leaves come from another plant but it has slightly bending leaves too.
New leaves in the center are continuosly emitted from every DL I have in the garden.

I will post tomorrow both pics side by side, so I won't pester you all with too many post.
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com
Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
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cybersix
Aug 28, 2015 1:29 AM CST
@sooby, here I am with the pics.
the following are pics from the same plant, (5 days from the first to the second). It has no new growth for now.

Thumb of 2015-08-28/cybersix/6565d9
Thumb of 2015-08-28/cybersix/6ae1cb

This is a pic of another plant, the inner leaves bend but there is new growth.

Thumb of 2015-08-28/cybersix/2bd2e8

There's still that interveinal defect.
@Maryl I tried to tear the plants but they seem good!!

Many thanks ( I hope you can see well)

Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Aug 28, 2015 2:32 AM CST
I don't think it is crown rot as it should have got worse after 5 days. All the other leaves look turgid from the picture.
Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
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cybersix
Aug 28, 2015 2:34 AM CST
Ok, that's good news!
do you still see interveinal chlorosis?

Now, with a soil PH 6.5 - 7, the whole thing is getting more confusing for me.
Thank You! Thank You! Thank You!
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com
Name: Maryl
Oklahoma (Zone 7a)
Cat Lover Roses Daylilies Container Gardener Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Cactus and Succulents
Region: Oklahoma Enjoys or suffers hot summers
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Maryl
Aug 29, 2015 2:50 AM CST
I have a daylily right now that is having the same problem (minus the Chlorosis). Most of my daylilies are in pots and this is no exception. On this particular daylily, it was (a) a new plant this spring (b) had already lost one fan to crown rot (c) has not been a vigorous grower. We have had an exceptional amount of rain for our area this August, and I think that on this plant the roots have just not grown enough to absorb all that water. When you have wilting foliage when there is adequate moisture available to the plant, almost invariably it is a root problem. Chlorosis can be another symptom of too much water. Because mine is in a pot it was easy for me to move it underneath the porch to make sure that no additional moisture reaches it. If you wish to go to the bother, you can dig yours up (what a dandy way to get a good view of the roots!), pot it up in an excellent draining potting mix and see if it pulls out of this funk before crown rot does set in............Maryl
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Aug 29, 2015 10:10 AM CST
cybersix said:
do you still see interveinal chlorosis?


It's hard to say because the sun shining through leaves can create the same effect in a picture. Can you break off a leaf and put it on a sheet of white paper then take a picture? Alternatively, does it still look like this to you?

http://www.daylilies.org/ahs_dictionary/interveinal_chlorosi...

cybersix said:
Now, with a soil PH 6.5 - 7, the whole thing is getting more confusing for me.


It is quite possible to get interveinal chlorosis in that pH range. I used to see it a lot here where the pH is around 6.8. It depends on various other factors. In my case, as in the one in the AHS picture above, it was manganese deficiency rather than iron but the symptoms would be more or less the same. I don't see it as much now and I'm not sure whether it's because I moved the daylilies to a new place in the garden some years ago, whether it is because I haven't amended the current bed with manure, the root system is more extensive now, or whether the plants themselves have acidified the immediate area around their roots (which is something plants can do) I don't know.

I went around my garden just now to see if any central leaves were flopping over but I didn't really see any except the picture below. I see it far more often in spring, perhaps the growth is "softer" then. I've always been curious about it, but it even happened in a potted daylily indoors this past winter as I may have mentioned. Eventually they straightened up on their own, which is what has always happened outdoors too. Other people have told me they see the middle leaves flopped over too so it doesn't seem to be unusual. As long as the other leaves in the fan are upright and turgid, which yours appear to be, I wouldn't be too concerned. If you see any of the rest of the leaves start to get soft then there may be a problem (unless it is leaf die-back due to the season - not sure how daylilies would behave where you are).

Thumb of 2015-08-29/sooby/94281c

When I said could you see new growth inside the flopped ones I meant if you separate those flopped leaves by pulling them apart can you see anything emerging down inside?
Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
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cybersix
Aug 29, 2015 11:39 AM CST
@Maryl, many thanks for describing so well what I could expect and for water suggestions.
I don't think excessive moisture is the problem, some of the plants are not in full open ground, they are in sort of big vase at ground level; there' s no a big amount of soil, and it dries very quickly; the rest is in a clay/mud soil.
summer is really hot and dry this year.I had to water by hand with a small watering can (6 litres) and I don't think I really over watered them. I alwasy check the soil before watering and I water only when it's dry. It rained for a couple of day but now we still have high temps.The plants seem firmly in the ground, but when I'll have a bit of time I'll try to dig one and check.

@sooby, many thanks to you too.
Inner leaves are floppy, and a lighter green than the outer leaves. There's new growth inside, new leaves that grows in this way.
Maybe it's normal, I don't know, I found some outer leaves bended almost near the base, but they are the oldest and very long so maybe it's fine.
Now, one doubt has come to my mind.. I don't recall exactly when I gave chelated iron to them, but could this be a side effect, in case iron was not needed?
I'm attaching pics of one leaf and a pic of the plant with the new growth I hope you can see the different shades of green. It's not simple to take a good pic!
Many many thanks! Thank You!
Thumb of 2015-08-29/cybersix/3b4a0c
Thumb of 2015-08-29/cybersix/de5b59
Thumb of 2015-08-29/cybersix/edb7c1

Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
sooby
Aug 29, 2015 2:02 PM CST
I don't think it would be a side-effect unless correcting a deficiency encouraged new growth, which wouldn't be a bad side effect Smiling It is true that an excess of one nutrient can cause a deficiency of another, but did you follow the iron label instructions? One thing I don't think we established was whether you applied the iron to the soil or the foliage?

The second leaf looks better than the first but still a bit stripey. I would still try the acid and water test poured around one or two plants (preferably ones that you haven't used the iron for if there are any) to see if the interveinal chlorosis improves beyond those that had just the iron.

As long as there is new growth that looks normal coming up within the flopped over central leaves I would not be concerned about the flopping. Keep checking them to see if they eventually straighten up. You may get more length and splaying out of the older leaves due to the amount of shade they're getting as well as the time of year although it's hard to compare your climate with mine. I would expect that if there was a serious problem you wouldn't have any doubts that something was wrong Smiling
Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
Image
cybersix
Aug 30, 2015 3:44 AM CST
I followed instructions on label, yes. It had to be given with water to the soil.
This flopping is becoming common to all plants, not to all but many; leaves in some case are twisting like a start of a spiral along the lenght.
Every plant has a happy center growing. There's also the aborting Stella among the symptoms, even if one pod that is on a scape with new blooms isn't dying.

I will let the soil dry, in a couple of days we're expecting rains so I decided to let thing as they are for now.
Climate here is about 85°F fluctuacting by day, humidity 45%.
The plants are getting less hours of sun.
Can I cut a bit the very long outer leaves ?
Thank You!
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Aug 30, 2015 5:10 AM CST
cybersix said:
Can I cut a bit the very long outer leaves ?


You can if they bother you but if you do it bear in mind that you're removing some of the "food factory" when you do so (leaves function like solar panels, they make the energy food for the plant). You're also removing the nutrients in those parts of the leaves. Sometimes we do things for aesthetic purposes that aren't necessarily in the best interests of the plant but it's not likely to kill them.

Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
Image
cybersix
Aug 30, 2015 5:29 AM CST
Thank You! I don't want to cut them much, only a bit because some are touching the ground in the entrance path.
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com

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