Daylilies forum: Use of ATP Thread and Database Images on The Lily Auction

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Name: Char
Vermont (Zone 4b)
Daylilies Forum moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Region: Vermont
Dog Lover Hybridizer Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Photography Keeper of Poultry Organic Gardener
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Char
Aug 29, 2015 6:17 AM CST

Moderator

With the seed and plant listings gearing up for the fall and winter selling season sellers will be looking for images to use to sell their products.
Previously, I used a small custom text for a watermark and All Rights Reserved for my images here at ATP. After seeing several sellers using my images that were posted to the ATP Database with All Rights Reserved and this small watermark on The Lily Auction (and even other websites!!!) last winter, I changed my watermark this year. Several of last winters sellers were clever, cropping the images so tightly the smaller watermark was cut off. Some were bold enough to not even bother with the cropping and stole the image displaying my watermark right on their auction listing or website. Other sellers asked me before using my images. These sellers were given permission, emailed images without watermarks and many times, a choice of several images of the same cultivar to choose from. All the while creating an exchange of trust and friendship. This year I changed my watermark settings and all my 2015 images have been posted with the larger watermark including Copyright(c) 2015 by Char.

On the bottom of every page in The Lily Auction is a User's Agreement which clearly states the use of images in a sellers auction listing.
http://www.daylily.com/auctionfiles/user-agreement.html

A few days ago while sipping my morning coffee and looking at the new listings on the LA, I saw an image that looked familiar..... Yup, one of my brand spanking new 2015 images.... complete with the copyright watermark from ATP. Grumbling

The theft of images may seem like a small thing not worth bothering with in today's world of images posted everywhere on the internet. To me, sharing images you took in your garden with others is one thing. Someone stealing other peoples copyright images for their personal monetary gain is another.
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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dave
Aug 29, 2015 6:19 AM CST

Garden.org Admin

Surely you know you can bring this to the attention of the owner of the Lily Auction and he'll take down the offending images?
Name: Julie
Roanoke, VA (Zone 7a)
Daylilies Region: Virginia Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Heucheras Cat Lover Hummingbirder
Clematis Lilies Birds Garden Art Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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floota
Aug 29, 2015 7:26 AM CST
Char, I would also be upset to see any of my images which are posted here used w/o permission for someone else's financial gain. It is YOUR intellectual property! Honestly, by the time someone uses it on the LA, the damage is done.

This has happened to me before a number of times, mostly when people would write and tell me someone was using what they thought was my pic, as who has time to patrol the LA? I have personally contacted people and asked them to remove them or credit me as photographer and not do use again w/0 permission. Most times they complied, only had to go to Mike once. Still, it would not be good to find that people are coming to this site and randomly using images marked with all rights reserved.
Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
Hybridizer Irises Butterflies Charter ATP Member Birds Cat Lover
Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Vegetable Grower Daylilies Hummingbirder Heucheras
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Hemlady
Aug 29, 2015 11:54 AM CST
It has happened to me before too and I did contact the person and she apologized and gave me credit for the pic.
Lighthouse Gardens
(Zone 7a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Avid Green Pages Reviewer
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dormantsrule
Aug 29, 2015 12:46 PM CST
Char said:...
On the bottom of every page in The Lily Auction is a User's Agreement which clearly states the use of images in a sellers auction listing.
http://www.daylily.com/auctionfiles/user-agreement.html

...


Exactly why, imo, the auctions should be removed and sellers should be banned from LA.

Photo used in avatar purchased on istockphoto.com
Name: Char
Vermont (Zone 4b)
Daylilies Forum moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Region: Vermont
Dog Lover Hybridizer Enjoys or suffers cold winters Garden Photography Keeper of Poultry Organic Gardener
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Char
Aug 29, 2015 6:01 PM CST

Moderator

Sorry to hear others have been put in this unfortunate situation. I don't patrol the LA looking to find my images, but it has been my home page for 11 years(?) so I am on there several times a day looking at listings, bidding...dreaming...like most of us on this forum. Whistling

Yes, the damage is already done, in the reputation of the seller ...and the hard feelings created on both sides, theirs for when they get caught and I point it out, mine for finding my images being used without my permission. As a long time user of the LA I am aware of the Users Agreement as should everyone selling or buying on there and yes, I do know about contacting Mike. The point is... I shouldn't have to contact Mike, sellers should not be stealing protected images for their listings!

Rather than contact Mike last week, and cause seller #1 a problem, I thought it would be better to contact seller #1 myself first using the LA message system...give them the benefit of human error. Seller #1 apologized and promptly removed the image. I accepted their apology. Four days ago (two days after #1) I find seller #2 with an image from ATP cropped to remove the ATP watermark. Using the LA message system again, I contacted them...have not heard a word from them and the listing and image is still on the LA. Then this morning while sipping my coffee...I find seller #1 has new listings... and taken another one of my images from the ATP site complete with watermark. Blinking

So yes, I do think people are coming to this site, into the threads and database and stealing images to use for their personal profit. You may be asking yourself why is this a big deal. I purchased that plant with my $$$. Grew it, cared for it, made sure it was healthy and produced that pretty bloom. I then took my time to go out, cleaned the plant removing spent blooms, watched for those photo bombing ants, had the best light to show that bloom at it's finest and made sure distractions were at a minimum in the background of my image. I then downloaded that image from the camera to my computer...both objects I paid for...took the time to crop, upload and shared it for use within the ATP site. I know ATP can not secure my image so I posted it using All Rights Reserved and added a watermark. If a seller thinks using my image will profit them and wants to use my image on a website other than ATP to sell their product.... the least they can do is ASK me to use it.
I contacted Mike this afternoon, they have 24 hrs to remove my images or show proof they have my permission to use them.
Name: Amy
Michigan (Zone 6a)
Daylilies Bulbs Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Michigan Lilies Cat Lover
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Growgirl
Aug 29, 2015 7:22 PM CST
I have noticed pictures from ATP members used on the LA. I make sure to steer clear of those sellers even if it was possible to know if they had permission or not. If a seller cannot provide their own picture, or at least one from the hybridizer, then I don't buy from them.
Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

Charter ATP Member Region: Gulf Coast I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Seller of Garden Stuff Dog Lover Region: United States of America
Ponds Hummingbirder Daylilies Container Gardener Butterflies Birds
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spunky1
Aug 30, 2015 4:45 AM CST
I have noticed some also get photos from the AHS data base, do not know if this is legal or not but seems unethical to me.
(Zone 7a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Avid Green Pages Reviewer
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dormantsrule
Aug 30, 2015 10:35 AM CST
When unauthorized use of photos is found, you should email a DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act)letter to the service provider. I think Mike Longo may host
his own site.

Here are 2 samples, which you will need to change text to reflect use of photos, seller's id.

http://labnol.blogspot.com/2007/09/dmca-notice-of-copyright-...
https://www.epicorg.com/sample-dmca-take-down-notice.html



Photo used in avatar purchased on istockphoto.com

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