Daylilies forum: Buyer Beware

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Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

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spunky1
Sep 6, 2015 5:41 AM CST
This was posted on the email Robin yesterday, if you have any of John Benz recent daylilies they may only be high priced seedlings and not registered daylilies.

Mr. Benz's website prominently states "AHS Names Pending" so that potential
buyers might think the registration process is underway. Recently, I
checked with the AHS registrar about this. Some of Mr. Benz's 2013
introductions have "reserved names" listed in the database. This does not
mean these seedlings are registered, and those reserved names expire in
2016, meaning that anyone who wants to use those same names to register a
daylily can do so if the names expire before actual registration takes
place. So I wonder how in good conscience the statement "AHS Names
pending" can be used when none of these 2015 introductions have been
submitted for registration. Buyers need to understand that names on
unregistered cultivars are fair game for anyone, as the names are not
protected by registration. Had Mr. Benz attempted to register a seedling as
'Volcanic Explosion' prior to listing it on his site, that name would have
been rejected by the committee and an alternate name would have to have been
selected for that seedling since the name is already taken. As these 2015
introductions are unregistered, these ( until such time that they are
actually registered) cannot be entered into AHS accredited shows, are not
eligible for any AHS awards, nor can they be shown or mentioned in the
Daylily Journal. That is not important to many people, but buyers should be
aware.

AHS strongly encourages hybridizers to register their cultivars before they
are entered into commerce. This is stated on the website and in the
registration guidelines. Regrettably, Mr. Benz has not been in compliance
with AHS registration policy since 2012. He did not register any cultivars
in 2013, 2014, and only one in 2015. The 2015 registration is 'Bighorn',
which is not included on his current website.

One of the reasons that AHS encourages hybridizers to register their
cultivars before they are entered into commerce is so that any such
misleading or confusing name issues will not arise with buyers. Sometimes
the Registrar or Registration Chair or even the President will get irate
emails from people who have purchased daylilies only to find that the names
of the cultivars they purchased are not shown in the AHS database, or that
they have purchased a cultivar with a name that was registered by someone
else 30 or 40 years ago! Members hopefully understand that AHS can do
nothing about hybridizers who choose to sell without registering their
seedlings, other than disallow them to nominate cultivars for awards ( or
the other sanctions listed above) We can only encourage hybridizers to do
the right thing and hope that they will follow through. We sincerely
appreciate that the majority of hybridizers sincerely try their best to
follow AHS guidelines and rules for registering their cultivars prior to
putting them in commerce, and certainly those who do follow the rules are
appreciated by all of their customers, too. Of course, it is the buyers
choice as to whether they buy registered daylilies or not!
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
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beckygardener
Sep 6, 2015 6:26 AM CST
Fred - That is interesting news! Why would Mr. Benz NOT register his seedlings? It's only $20 per registration. Is the saving of $20 all that substantial or is there some other motivation for not following through to register any plants he is "naming" and selling? I fail to see why a hybridizer would forgo registration if they have a seedling that is selling on his website or in his nursery/garden.
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Name: Vickie
Elberfeld, Indiana, USA (Zone 6b)
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blue23rose
Sep 6, 2015 6:58 AM CST
Thanks for the info, Fred. I noticed that the AHS database lists a hybridizer "Benz" through the year 2000. After that the hybridizer is listed as "Benz-J". Is this the same person?

I don't have any that would be suspect since mine are older cultivars. But this is very sad news. There are 19 daylilies listed as reserved from 2013 by Benz and due to expire in 2016.
Vickie
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Coatesville IN (Zone 5b)
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Claudia
Sep 6, 2015 9:00 AM CST
I guess no surprise. I have heard that there are others that are being a bit misleading with their customers regarding seedlings too. Thumbs down Sad.
Weeds are flowers too, once you get to know them. ~Eeyore
[Last edited by Claudia - Sep 6, 2015 9:01 AM (+)]
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Name: Betty
Bakersfield, CA
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Betja
Sep 6, 2015 10:11 AM CST
Good to know! Thanks Fred.

Betty
Name: Kevin Smith
INDIANA (Zone 5b)
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kssmith
Sep 6, 2015 10:56 PM CST
Thanks from me also Fred. I buy almost all of mine from a local reputable hybridizer and i buy only registered cultivars as i am collecting not for quantity but quality. I have no interest in unregistered seedlings and i use name tags in my flower beds so i know each and every one and have also gone to the AHS website to back up the name with a pic when available.
My garden map consist of a photo album book with pics of all i own. That way i can show them off without having guests over all the time. Although that too would thrill me. Thumbs up
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Name: Marilyn
Northern KY (Zone 6a)
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Marilyn
Sep 6, 2015 11:57 PM CST
Betja said:Good to know! Thanks Fred.



I agree Thumbs up Thanks! I tip my hat to you. Thank You!

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Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
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Calif_Sue
Sep 7, 2015 1:19 AM CST

Plants Admin

Problems of this nature with registrations go back many years with Mr. Benz, I believe.
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Name: Teresa
South central KY (Zone 6b)
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bluegrassmom
Sep 7, 2015 1:53 AM CST
I just don't understand why NOT register your plants?
Name: Mayo
The Netherlands, Europe (Zone 9a)
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Mayo62
Sep 7, 2015 4:07 AM CST
I've bought several unnamed seedlings from a hybridizer, just beacuse I really like them Lovey dubby
But it was MY choice !

That's different from buying a seedling when you're given the impression it's a named cultivar... Angry
In my book that's deception and downright RUDE Thumbs down


Mayo
a DL flower a day keeps the doctor away
Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

Charter ATP Member Region: Gulf Coast I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Seller of Garden Stuff Dog Lover Region: United States of America
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spunky1
Sep 7, 2015 5:35 AM CST
There is nothing wrong with selling and buying seedlings if both know they are seedlings, I do both, but both parties know they are seedlings.
Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
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Hemlady
Sep 7, 2015 5:38 AM CST
I agree
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Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
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beckygardener
Sep 7, 2015 6:41 AM CST
I agree

I just don't understand why a hybridizer and seller would NOT name one that he says he is naming and registering? I don't get that.

Is he calling a bunch of seedlings by the same name showing that he has that name reserved, but is not following through with his registration of any seedlings?

That would surely be pretty sneaky. Let's say he "reserves" a name on the AHS cultivar registration for $10 that will hold that name for 3 years. So for $10, John Benz can call ANY seedling as one that he will be registering under that reserved name. No details of the seedling are given for a reserve name, so that name can be used for an infinite amount of seedlings. He can sell numerous seedlings with the false premise that he is going to be registering them and tell any buyer that they will get the seedling cheaper now because it hasn't been registered yet? So folks, that is apparently one way to cheat a buyer?
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
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Name: Kevin Smith
INDIANA (Zone 5b)
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kssmith
Sep 7, 2015 11:02 AM CST
I would never trust anyone who never follows through on what they say will do. He is trying to make the sale with no regard to his reputation or his customers. Its a shame some people think of their own integrity with so little value.
SO MANY DAYLILYS, SO LITTLE LAND
Name: Pat
Near McIntosh, Florida (Zone 9a)
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Xenacrockett
Sep 7, 2015 6:12 PM CST


Sometimes people have health issues.

I wonder if that might not be a factor in this case?
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
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beckygardener
Sep 7, 2015 6:24 PM CST
That could be a very good possibility ... if he wasn't selling. But he is still digging and selling plants. If his health was bad, would he be able to do that?
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
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Name: Arlene
Ponce Inlet, FL (Zone 9a)
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florange
Sep 7, 2015 6:33 PM CST
He has done this for years, Becky. Years! I remember a famous hybridizer telling me about him 10 or 12 yr ago. At the same time, the Salters were doing the same thing. I don't know if that's been resolved or not. I don't care enough to do the research.

I strictly buy cultivars from hybridizers I have met over the years. Being in FL, it's pretty easy. It is especially important since I am forced by my location to use totally evergreen daylilies. I don't like playing games with my money.
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Sep 7, 2015 6:51 PM CST
Arlene - I am still trying to figure out WHY he does that though. Could it be he is too cheap to register any daylilies? Or is it that he is growing all kinds of seedlings looking for a few good enough to register, but in the meantime he is selling any that don't make the cut to make a profit off them by telling buyers that they will be registered (so that he gets a good market price for them)?

To me, $20 is pretty cheap to name and register a plant. If you sold one fan for $20, you just made your money back. And we all know what the majority of NEW intro often go for.....
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Arlene
Ponce Inlet, FL (Zone 9a)
Tropicals Daylilies Bromeliad Region: Florida Enjoys or suffers hot summers Birds
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florange
Sep 7, 2015 7:47 PM CST
Well, I don't think anyone knows why he does it. The people who told me just shrugged and went on with the story.

I think this man is just taking advantage of people who are not knowledgeable enough to know what's happening. I look up every plant before I buy it. Of course, I've seen a lot of the flowers in person, but I still want to make sure that they were registered. Obviously a lot of people don't even take that simple step--they see a pretty face and plunk down the money. To some, lack of registration does not matter; to others, an assurance of registration is enough. I call these folks gullible. He calls them customers. He can't survive without gullible people.
Name: Mayo
The Netherlands, Europe (Zone 9a)
Region: Europe Cat Lover Daylilies Irises Dog Lover Hellebores
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Mayo62
Sep 8, 2015 2:00 AM CST
perhaps we can send him an email and ask him...? Thumbs up
a DL flower a day keeps the doctor away

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