Sempervivum and Jovibarba forum: Watermarks on Sempervivum

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Name: Judith
Northern Virginia (Zone 7a)
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JKing
Sep 6, 2015 4:46 PM CST
I know this must have been discussed a lot, but I cannot find a post for it. I'm just figuring out what you all mean when you talk about watermarks on semps. I could not understand why anyone would desire white spots on their leaves where the dried water left a mark. 😳 but now that I realize that watermarks are gorgeous, wavy stripes, I'm wondering this: do some varieties of semps automatically develop watermarks or is this like cresting where it occurs randomly. Also, if anyone knows of other posts on this subject, I'd appreciate a heads-up. Thanks
Name: Tim Stoehr
Canby, Oregon (Zone 8b)
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tcstoehr
Sep 6, 2015 8:08 PM CST
I'm guessing the watermark is a physical imprint from where previous leaves have been tightly pressed together during part of their development. On an Agave you can actually run your finger along and feel the markings, but on a semp it's much more subtle. Continuing to guess, I'd say some varieties are simply more prone to it than others.
Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
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springcolor
Sep 6, 2015 9:31 PM CST
It has something to do with the wax on the leaves. Man I can hear Kevin telling up all about this but can't remember. @Jungleshadows
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Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
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valleylynn
Sep 6, 2015 10:50 PM CST

Moderator

Here you go Judith and Tim. Not all semps get the watermarks. Some have them nearly year round, others just at certain times of the year. They are quite beautiful.
The thread "Watermarked Semps" in Sempervivum and Jovibarba forum

@JungleShadows
Kevin can you explain what causes the water markings to happen?
Name: Judith
Northern Virginia (Zone 7a)
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JKing
Sep 7, 2015 10:29 AM CST
Loved the Watermark thread. Thank you Lynn, for the link. I even discovered a comment about Howard Willis's book and ordered it. The pictures in that thread are gorgeous. I now have a long list of semps I want. 😊 BTW, this is a super community.
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Sep 7, 2015 10:36 AM CST

Moderator

We are so glad you joined us Judith. And you will love Howard Willis's book. I have it.
Maybe you could join us this next spring at the Sempervivum Hybridizing Clinic in Salem, OR. The clinic is free, we visit some amazing gardens and nurseries. You would have such a great time.
Name: Judith
Northern Virginia (Zone 7a)
Sempervivums Container Gardener Garden Photography Amaryllis Garden Ideas: Level 2
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JKing
Sep 7, 2015 5:38 PM CST
Thank You! Thanks for the invite, Lynn. I've been mooning over that clinic. I'd LOVE it, and I'd enjoy meeting the group there. But we are going to be in the middle of a big move to TN, so maybe another year. 😊
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Sep 7, 2015 8:36 PM CST

Moderator

Hopefully the following year will work for you, we would sure love to have you join us.
Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
JungleShadows
Sep 8, 2015 8:36 AM CST
Yes the watermarks are from uneven distribution of surface waxes that causes the underlying anthocyanin colored cells beneath to have different shades. Think about adding candle wax over a basic clear color in different amounts and you have an idea as to how the colors can be affected. It adds a lot of distinction and beauty to those that exhibit these characteristics.

One of the sibs to 'Borscht' has the strongest contrast in the watermarks that I have seen and it seems to pass it on to its seedlings too.

Lynn is right about the clinic. All the semp crazies in one spot!

Kevin
Name: Julia
Washington State (Zone 7a)
Garden Photography Region: Pacific Northwest Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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springcolor
Sep 8, 2015 9:07 AM CST
Thank You!
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Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Sep 8, 2015 9:14 AM CST

Moderator

I added it to the Vignettes by Kevin Vaughn The thread "Vignettes by Kevin Vaughn" in Sempervivum and Jovibarba forum

Thank you Kevin for the explaination, and thank you Judith for asking. That was a great question.
Name: Judith
Northern Virginia (Zone 7a)
Sempervivums Container Gardener Garden Photography Amaryllis Garden Ideas: Level 2
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JKing
Sep 8, 2015 9:21 AM CST
Thank you for the terrific explanation, Kevin. It makes me think of batik and the application of wax changing the color outcome. But I won't try that on a semp. Big Grin
Name: Bev
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
Sempervivums Container Gardener Foliage Fan Garden Ideas: Master Level Photo Contest Winner: 2014
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webesemps
Sep 8, 2015 11:35 AM CST
JungleShadows said: Lynn is right about the clinic. All the semp crazies in one spot!

Kevin


Wasn't sure how I was wanting to define myself at this stage of my life...and Kevin just helped. Smiling

[Last edited by webesemps - Sep 8, 2015 11:39 AM (+)]
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Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
JungleShadows
Sep 8, 2015 4:39 PM CST
Bev,

Crazy is the new 40!

Kevin
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Sep 8, 2015 4:49 PM CST

Moderator

Judith you would absolutely love this group of semp fanatics. Now doesn't that sound better than crazy? Green Grin!
Name: Bev
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
Sempervivums Container Gardener Foliage Fan Garden Ideas: Master Level Photo Contest Winner: 2014
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webesemps
Sep 8, 2015 5:43 PM CST
It's too late; Kevin went and put an official label on us all.. Blinking .
Though I, for one, don't have 350+ cultivars of semps... Whistling
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Sep 8, 2015 6:26 PM CST

Moderator

Well I don't either. Green Grin!
Name: Tim Stoehr
Canby, Oregon (Zone 8b)
Sempervivums Region: Pacific Northwest Vegetable Grower Cactus and Succulents Sedums Bee Lover
Region: Oregon Dragonflies Keeper of Poultry Cat Lover Composter Apples
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tcstoehr
Sep 9, 2015 1:10 PM CST
The water markings seem to match the outlines of the leaves above it, leading me to assume the pressure of one leaf against another has something to do with this. Perhaps influencing how much wax gets deposited where? If not, then why do the watermarks match the leaf outlines above them? Confused
Name: Kevin Vaughn
Salem OR (Zone 8a)
JungleShadows
Sep 9, 2015 9:15 PM CST
Tim,

Actually the watermark patterns are quite variable, especially in the better watermarked ones. You do get SOME change in wax deposition becvause of subtending leaves but it's more minor than in many true watermarks.

Kevin
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Sep 9, 2015 9:36 PM CST

Moderator

Another great piece of information. Thank you Kevin.

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