Peonies forum: Yellow Itohs - how easy is to distinguish?

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Name: Alex
Toronto, Ontario
Region: Canadian
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AlexUnder
Sep 22, 2015 6:46 PM CST
Looking through catalogs and pictures I find that some of the early yellow Itohs look extremely similar if not outrageously the same. How difficult to distinguish plants and flowers of Bartzella, Prairie Charm, Garden Treasure, etc. basically yellow with reddish center? What are the differences? Never had a chance to see them side by side, hence the question.
Name: Mary Stella
Anchorage, AK (Zone 4b)
Peonies Ponds Dahlias Canning and food preservation Lilies Permaculture
Garden Ideas: Level 2
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Oberon46
Sep 22, 2015 7:35 PM CST
For some it is the plant form, large upright or sublata. Size of flower. Type of stamens etc. I agree they are very similar.
"What a person needs in gardening is a cast iron back with a hinge in it" Charles Dudley Warner (spelling edited by Dinu lol)
Name: Tracey
Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
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magnolialover
Sep 22, 2015 8:15 PM CST

Moderator

Garden Treasure is shorter than Batzella, for example, in plant structure, and I think the flowers are a bit larger too. Similar yes, but the differences are pretty significant. Side by side, they don't look like copies of each other at all, at least I don't believe so. They are yellows but even the colors aren't the same.
Tracey
Name: Karen
Southeast PA (Zone 6b)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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kousa
Sep 22, 2015 8:48 PM CST
Garden Treasure

Thumb of 2015-09-23/kousa/d567ba


Bartzella

Thumb of 2015-09-23/kousa/bb7e5c




Name: Liz Best
Elizabeth Colorado (Zone 4b)
Peonies Winter Sowing Dahlias Region: Colorado Plant and/or Seed Trader Enjoys or suffers cold winters
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LizinElizabeth
Sep 22, 2015 9:30 PM CST
Garden Treasure looks much fuller. Both are absolutely beautiful, Karen!
3 more to compare! This is Smith Family Yellow

Yumi

and Sonoma Halo All first year flowers!


Liz
Name: Karen
Southeast PA (Zone 6b)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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kousa
Sep 22, 2015 10:10 PM CST
Wow, Sonoma Halo is gorgeous! I love the intense yellow color, the ruffling of the outer petals and the cupped form of the inner petals. What a beautiful effect! Lovey dubby Drooling
Name: Tracey
Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Tomato Heads Pollen collector Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Cat Lover
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Garden Photography Seed Starter Region: Wisconsin
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magnolialover
Sep 23, 2015 5:54 AM CST

Moderator

Sonoma Halo will probably be more full next year, Liz. In person it looks a lot like a giant yellow carnation on an established plant.
Tracey
Name: Caroline Scott
Calgary (Zone 4a)
Charter ATP Member Region: Canadian Bulbs Winter Sowing Enjoys or suffers cold winters Lilies
Peonies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Garden Ideas: Master Level
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CarolineScott
Sep 23, 2015 7:35 AM CST
Ideally you would want a DNA sequence analysis to distinguish between two closely appearing cultivars. That is not currently available to most of us, so descriptions and pictures of the whole plant are necessary. Many of the ITOHs do not show the true flowers until they are well established. I think the APS and CPS have good descriptions of the most prevalent cultivars. You need to take in to account the flowering week as well. I just planted Grace Root which is similar to Coral Fay, but Coral Fay flowers early, and Grace Root flowers later.
Name: Alex
Toronto, Ontario
Region: Canadian
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AlexUnder
Sep 23, 2015 2:41 PM CST
I am looking at Liz Yumi flower and it looks exactly my Smith Family Yellow after division ...
Name: Alex
Toronto, Ontario
Region: Canadian
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AlexUnder
Sep 23, 2015 7:07 PM CST
By the way, I read somewhere that Garden Treasure smells somehow better and different from other Itohs?
Name: Liz Best
Elizabeth Colorado (Zone 4b)
Peonies Winter Sowing Dahlias Region: Colorado Plant and/or Seed Trader Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Hummingbirder Cat Lover Lilies Daylilies Dog Lover Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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LizinElizabeth
Sep 23, 2015 7:47 PM CST
All of the yellows I posted pics of are 1st year, expect bigger and better next year! Tracey, I saw Sonoma Halo at the APS convention year before last, absolutely fell in love with it!

Karen, have you noticed Garden Treasure smells different than the other Itohs?
Liz
Name: Alex
Toronto, Ontario
Region: Canadian
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AlexUnder
Sep 25, 2015 9:09 PM CST
What can you make of this one?
Thumb of 2015-09-26/AlexUnder/15eeb3


Thumb of 2015-09-26/AlexUnder/801861


Thumb of 2015-09-26/AlexUnder/399ff4

Name: Caroline Scott
Calgary (Zone 4a)
Charter ATP Member Region: Canadian Bulbs Winter Sowing Enjoys or suffers cold winters Lilies
Peonies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Garden Ideas: Master Level
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CarolineScott
Sep 26, 2015 8:32 AM CST
It appears to be creamy colored.
Was it supposed to be yellow?
Or has it changed from another color?
How old is the plant?
I always wonder if peony color is affected by nutrients in soil?
Name: Alex
Toronto, Ontario
Region: Canadian
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AlexUnder
Sep 26, 2015 7:15 PM CST
it is more yellowish than on photo...for whatever reason the camera is not showing true color... about 3 years...
Name: Caroline Scott
Calgary (Zone 4a)
Charter ATP Member Region: Canadian Bulbs Winter Sowing Enjoys or suffers cold winters Lilies
Peonies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Garden Ideas: Master Level
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CarolineScott
Sep 27, 2015 8:49 AM CST
So it is an established plant.
But it is hard to tell from just flower.
What do leaves look like?
Name: Alex
Toronto, Ontario
Region: Canadian
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AlexUnder
Sep 27, 2015 7:25 PM CST
Hi Caroline,
the 3rd picture has some leaves - bottom right. Or something more specific?

Name: Caroline Scott
Calgary (Zone 4a)
Charter ATP Member Region: Canadian Bulbs Winter Sowing Enjoys or suffers cold winters Lilies
Peonies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Garden Ideas: Master Level
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CarolineScott
Sep 29, 2015 7:44 AM CST
Right!
Finely divided leaves should give us some clues.
I am away from home and don't have my peony books.
But will look that up. It does give info on parentage.
Name: Caroline Scott
Calgary (Zone 4a)
Charter ATP Member Region: Canadian Bulbs Winter Sowing Enjoys or suffers cold winters Lilies
Peonies Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Garden Ideas: Master Level
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CarolineScott
Sep 30, 2015 7:51 AM CST
Could it be Yellow Dream which flowers early?
Name: Alex
Toronto, Ontario
Region: Canadian
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AlexUnder
Sep 30, 2015 11:36 AM CST
I thought that it is Bartzella, but find it not too high and not too vigorous ...Yellow Dream flowers online pictures look semi double, I think mine is more full, but I could be wrong.
Name: Tracey
Wisconsin (Zone 5a)
Forum moderator Hybridizer Tomato Heads Pollen collector Hosted a Not-A-Raffle-Raffle Cat Lover
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Garden Photography Seed Starter Region: Wisconsin
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magnolialover
Sep 30, 2015 12:01 PM CST

Moderator

The height, color and flower form look like Bartzella to me. Garden Treasure is not as tall so I feel like I'm pretty confident that that isn't it.
Tracey

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