I always thought the cooler growing zones would be easier to set seeds. Early this year when temps and conditions seemed ideal to me, many were difficult. When the temps got warm and even what I thought were less than ideal, everything started setting seeds. So I don't pretend to know the why's, but am not hesitant to try setting seeds anytime. I usually break the pistol back when doing late day or evening crosses to make sure I am not pollinating a dry pistol tip. Also, I am more sure that my pollen and not something from bee's or wind set the seed. If I have something that I find pod difficult and really want to set a pod, I will pollinate a bloom at night which is going to open the next day. This can also be a way to set pods when temps reach triple digits. There are times when the climate just will not allow success around here, like days or weeks with temps over 100. The pods that set will cook off.
Terry

Wow, I've never heard of breaking the pistil before. How far back do you usually break it, just a little way -- or maybe even up to half?

Ahead said: I came in for a cup of coffee and have now stayed through dinner...lol.

Steve

plan for this to happen many more times. ATP is a way of life, sometimes.

Betja said:Wow, I've never heard of breaking the pistil before. How far back do you usually break it, just a little way -- or maybe even up to half?

I did this a couple of times this year, too,because of zig-zag pistils or other reasons.sometimes the end is visibly dry and you will know somewhat intuitively where to cut it.

Pod setting, seed planting, and almost everything else I do seems to be completely non- scientific, and more under the motto: If it ain't broke.... Meaning...I am able to make 1000s upon 1000s of seeds every year, what's too learn? But maybe, if I ever retire, or if I ever stop selling seeds, there may come a time when I could take even better condition notes, and study seed making more thoroughly. It could never be completely scientific, because my yard isn't laboratory conditions, but there would be so more more to know. Like success before a rain, after a rain, what temperature is too hot. And the pods themselves are so interesting. I have one flower, PAUL SAIN'S PRIZE, that will set pods, but they have always been freakishly thick, and the seeds never ripen. Or, the difference in pollen? I have some cultivars who's pollen will set on almost everything, magic pollen I call it and they are all three very pod difficult.

I just find the whole process fascinating (I know, Todd, get a life) and appreciate the information being shared.
Steve

I was ready to pitch "Banana Smoothie" after a few years of trying to set a pod on it, until Judy Davisson told me to use it's pollen. Now why didn't I think of that? haha

Anyone have any success at all setting a pod on "Banana Smoothie"?

Banana Smoothie has "Webster's Pink Wonder" as the pollen parent which is also very difficult to set a pod on. Interestingly, I get the occasional pod on WPW with dip pollen, maybe I should try some dip pollen on Banana Smoothie.

Thanks James and Steve! I will definitely keep trying with Wild Hair.

Betja said:Wow, I've never heard of breaking the pistil before. How far back do you usually break it, just a little way -- or maybe even up to half?

I've done this too but never thought to mark which they were.

When I first got Heartbeat of Heaven it wouldn't set a pod. It took it 3 years to clump up before I got it to set pods. It's odd but even its pollen wouldn't work when it was just a single fan.

Betja said:Wow, I've never heard of breaking the pistil before. How far back do you usually break it, just a little way -- or maybe even up to half?

I forget who to credit this idea to, but this summer someone in the forums recommended cutting--not pinching/breaking--them off or you might risk closing of the tubules to where the pollen can't get down. @char - was that your suggestion?

Also, someone else recommended taking pistil juice from another bloom and adding it to the stigma of the bloom you really want to pollinate. @beckygardener was this your idea?

If I come across the thread again soon, I will try to remember to post the link here, there was some very informative stuff in there. I think it might have been the thread I started about bent or zig-zag pistils on my Black Plush DL plant.

No, it wasn't me. But I have cut the pistils back at times on a zigzag or if the pistils are too long, but have not had success even doing that.

I did read about the pistil juice and plan to try that in the future. It might have been Juli or Char?

I am interested to hear what anyone else has to say about Webster's Pink Wonder. I recently acquired that one because I saw that it had 81 registered children which appear to have come from the pollen not pod.

I just have to ask this question ....

Why such a desire to cross for pod instead of pollen to create seeds? What changes in the hybridizing from a seedling created from a pod vs. a seedling created from pollen?

There are 2 TET registrations where WPW is the Pod parent, so a very low percentage :

Small World Pink Lemonade (Miller-M., 2013) (Webster's Pink Wonder × Cameroons)

Small World the Great Pumpkin (Miller-M., 2010) (Webster's Pink Wonder × Primal Scream)

And One with it as the pod parent, combined with a dip ...............

Too Pink to Think (Elliott-S., 2014)
height 28in (71cm), bloom 7in (18.0cm), season M, Semi-Evergreen, Diploid, 27 buds, 4 branches, Very pink self with an intense green throat. (Webster's Pink Wonder × Aaron's Dinner Plate)

I, for one, don't care if the cultivar is crossed via pod or pollen. I know some do. To me, it is more about lost opportunity. By the time I decide to switch to pollen, the purpose for me getting the daylily in the first place has most likely changed, both from a personal hybridizing stand point , and for selling seeds. Like I said earlier, I chose to use the pollen of COWGIRL and THANK YOU DAD this year because I want to see them in my seedlings still because they are still stunning to me.

Steve

Sorry, wasn't me. Although I've heard of folks cutting pistils it is not something I do.

Becky, it may have been Polymerous or Juli's post in this thread that you remember....
The thread "I am having problems crossing daylilies" in Daylilies forum

beckygardener said:
I just have to ask this question ....

Why such a desire to cross for pod instead of pollen to create seeds? What changes in the hybridizing from a seedling created from a pod vs. a seedling created from pollen?

For me it is a matter of my choice in pollen parents. I can spread the pollen from a chosen pollen parent with a majority of the characteristics I'm looking for to a lot of pod parents, make the seeds, then decide what crosses best match my goals for planting. If a plant won't set pods I might not want to use it's pollen unless there is a very specific cross with it that I want to get seeds from. After learning which plants are difficult to set on, I may make a note for the next year to use it's pollen in a few select crosses, as a major pollen for crosses or not use the plant at all.

Thanks, Char!

If the seedling is from a desired pod parent, does the seedling tend to have bloom traits that favor the pod parent? I've heard the issue of pod vs. pollen parent numerous times and have always wondered why?

@floota , @spunky1 , @Hemlady , @kidfishing , and other hybridizers .... I would please love to hear what you have to say about my question!

I remember reading at some point that the plant habit was more robustly inherited from the pod parent and the bloom from the pollen. I'm not terribly concerned one way or another, for me it is more of not wanting to waste my time or precious pollen on plants that won't set pods. I (don't really know why) have a strong urge to add converted genetics to the tet pool and since they are often poorly pod fertile if at all, I like to spread their pollen around and don't want to keep putting pollen on something that will not set.

Of course, the most difficult pod parent is the one that refuses to bloom. I've got a couple of those that just taunt me every year. Tet Rose F. Kennedy I'm glaring in your general direction!!!

Breaking or cutting the pistil (actually the style of the pistil) by itself is not likely to help a difficult pod setter. The liquid that is produced naturally by the stigma (stigmatic fluid) is not the same as the liquid that may ooze from a cut style (stylar fluid). The stigmatic fluid is important for the pollen tube growth. The stylar fluid is likely to cause the pollen to burst and die. Breaking or cutting the style is also likely to crush the channel through which the pollen tube has to grow.

I have read the suggestion that a sharp razor blade wielded like a sword can cut the style without crushing the stylar channel. Then one would need to blot the stylar fluid dry and add stigmatic fluid (from the moist stigma of another flower) or use an artificial pollen germination mixture. However, I do not expect that doing this would help a difficult pod setter. Not setting pods is more likely caused by the daylily incompatibility system, genetically or environmentally low pod infertility or sterility, etc.

@beckygardener you asked,

If the seedling is from a desired pod parent, does the seedling tend to have bloom traits that favor the pod parent? I've heard the issue of pod vs. pollen parent numerous times and have always wondered why?

The answer is that there is no valid evidence that daylily pod parents pass different traits to seedlings [than pollen parents], although some hybridizers do believe that they do and other hybridizers do not.

Pollen or pod does not matter to me, although I really like it when a plant is pod fertile. I have tried both cutting the pistol and adding fluid from another plant with no success so far. I do believe I may have had success though once when I cut the twisted pistol on Mokan Butterfly and pollinated what was left of it. I did have a few pods form.

This was my first year with Four Eyes, but I got four fans from Nicole DeVito that I won on the auction so they were very large and healthy. It was raining every day almost here for two months. Very very unusual for Texas, or my area of Texas. So lots of time I would put on pollen, just to have it washed back off. I usually always do early morning pollinating. Anyway I set several pods on it and most of them aborted. But I see that I sold two auctions of five seeds each of Four Eyes x Jane's Pink and Blue. I also sold four seeds of Four Eyes x Undefinable. And Undefinable was hard to use on lots of daylilies, it was picky. So I will see what it does next year, the fans are growing great now. So I think I got three pods total.

Heather Grace I no longer have, but it never set pods for me as well as the pollen didn't do anything for me either.

My best pod studs are Dragonfly Dawn, which will set a pod on almost every flower, and Orange Blossom Trail which will also set a pod on almost every flower. I did get several pods on OBT from Undefinable. Another good pod setter is Cutting Loose.

I get shade in my garden until about 10:00 am from crepe myrtles and then from the other side of the yard in the afternoon. I just have a city back yard garden. So the most sun mine get is about six hours but it is horribly hot all summer in north central Texas.

Dot

I hope my newly acquired Dragonfly Dawn will make it though our winter so I can try it next year.