Daylilies forum: A daylily selling trend I hate seeing... The SF!

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Name: Peter
Allentown PA (Zone 6b)
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Nysbadmk8
Oct 21, 2015 9:43 AM CST
So after spending a few months purchasing plants, I've seen a great increase in sellers (particularly southern ones) Hawking SF plants. And I'm not talking 14/15 intros.. I'm talking normal stuff, I realize we have become a price sensitive society, but a bunch of these cultivars should not be sold as SF. Or am I missing something here? I rather pay the extra 5-10 bucks to have nice plant size rather then watch a SF take 3-5 years to make it to a clump.

I have at this point sworn off SF purchases other then lastest greatest intro's.

Name: Betty
MN zone 4
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daylilydreams
Oct 21, 2015 9:58 AM CST
I don't think there is an increase in selling single fans, some sellers just always sell mostly single fans. Living in the north I very seldom purchase single fans unless it is something hard to get that I want to add to my garden. Single fans take longer to settle in here usually, double fans do better. I just avoid those listing single fans, there are plenty of sellers and I watch for those selling double fans. I have been purchasing daylilies on the LA for years it does take patience finding the plants you want. I do like the LA without them my garden would have a lot less daylilies, which in hindsight maybe wouldn't be a bad thing. Hilarious!
I take it you were talking about the Lily Auction?

Welcome! to ATP it is a good place to for all sorts of gardening information and to just interact with other gardening folks.

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[Last edited by daylilydreams - Oct 21, 2015 10:00 AM (+)]
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Name: Steve Todd
Illinois (Zone 5b)
Region: Illinois Plant and/or Seed Trader Daylilies Enjoys or suffers cold winters
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Ahead
Oct 21, 2015 10:00 AM CST
Peter,

Most of what I get in here is a single fan, unless you buy from Judy Davisson. All the plants I sell here of my intros are single fans. I wish it wasn't so, but my increase is slow slow, folks are lucky to get a fan at all.

I can work around a single fan. I am always hoping for bloom that first season. If I can get that, then everything else is possible.

Steve
Name: Peter
Allentown PA (Zone 6b)
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Nysbadmk8
Oct 21, 2015 10:03 AM CST
Ahead said:Peter,

Most of what I get in here is a single fan, unless you buy from Judy Davisson. All the plants I sell here of my intros are single fans. I wish it wasn't so, but my increase is slow slow, folks are lucky to get a fan at all.

I can work around a single fan. I am always hoping for bloom that first season. If I can get that, then everything else is possible.

Steve


I dont mind Intro's (I expect most intro's as SF) , But we are talking 5-12 year old stuff.
Name: James
South Bend, IN (Zone 5b)
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JWWC
Oct 21, 2015 10:13 AM CST
Ahead said:Peter,

Most of what I get in here is a single fan, unless you buy from Judy Davisson.


For sure. I bought 2 DFs from her and she sent me 3 clumps. Blinking :biggrin:

I'm not averse to the single fan but what I don't like is to see people trying to sell a single fan almost immediately after release, for basically the same price as the hybridizer. At that point, I'm going to support the hybridizer even if it costs me a bit more.

The other thing to note is that many people line out single fans, and by the time we get them up here they often have increased.
Name: Stan
Florida Panhandle (Defuniak Sp (Zone 8b)
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GaNinFl
Oct 21, 2015 10:24 AM CST
Welcome! Peter...


I would agree with most everything that's posted here. I try to obtain DF & TF when buying. But first I have to get the DW to loosen the purse strings Rolling on the floor laughing

I tip my hat to you.


Stan
(Georgia Native in Florida)
http://garden.org/blogs/view/GaNinFl/
Name: Peter
Allentown PA (Zone 6b)
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Hybridizer Region: Pennsylvania Daylilies Vegetable Grower
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Nysbadmk8
Oct 21, 2015 10:31 AM CST
I bought a Triple fan of Sunny Intervals from Davi... She sent me 8... Insta clump.

I also dislike the people on there selling SF on new releases after they bought the collection, for nearly the same price.

I try my best to buy from the hybridizer also, as this keeps them going.

I just in general dislike SF unless its the only way to get a rare/new plant.

Ive just noticed a few sellers are now listing prices as SF.
Name: Mayo
The Netherlands, Europe (Zone 9a)
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Mayo62
Oct 21, 2015 10:55 AM CST
JWWC said:The other thing to note is that many people line out single fans,


I may sound very ignorant (which is true Rolling on the floor laughing ), but can you explain what that means: 'lining out' single fans?

Over here nurseries offer plants.
If I order 2 of a certain cultivar I have no idea whether I get 2 SF's or 1 DF...
The concept of DF's is not mentioned anywhere that I have seen Shrug!

That said, in most cases I have received móre than I ordered, up to and including clumps Lovey dubby
Apart from recent intro's or cultivars that have a very slow growth, but that is understandable Smiling

On the other hand.. if I would receive clumps áll te time, I wouldn't be able to have as many varieties as I have now: space ís a very important issue! Sad


Mayo

a DL flower a day keeps the doctor away
Name: Ashton & Terry
Jones, OK (Zone 7a)
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kidfishing
Oct 21, 2015 10:59 AM CST
Mayo62 said:

I may sound very ignorant (which is true Rolling on the floor laughing ), but can you explain what that means: 'lining out' single fans?


Let's say you have a big clump of a daylily you want to introduce.
You line it out in a row of single or double fans, that away when your ready to release it you don't have to divide it.
Kidfishing
Name: Mayo
The Netherlands, Europe (Zone 9a)
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Mayo62
Oct 21, 2015 11:02 AM CST
Thank You! for the explanation!
Makes perfect sense Thumbs up

Mayo
a DL flower a day keeps the doctor away
Name: Peter
Allentown PA (Zone 6b)
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Nysbadmk8
Oct 21, 2015 11:07 AM CST
Kid fishing is on the money, but its not only for new releases. Typically growers will do line outs a month or so before fall, so when the spring rush happens, they just dig and ship.

Name: pam
gainesville fl (Zone 8b)
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gardenglory
Oct 21, 2015 11:53 AM CST
I find that most sellers list SF., but send a DF and call it a bonus. That works for me. Except for intro's. They are usually lrg. Sf.
If I do get an actual Sf., i wont order again. I have terrible luck with sf., . Now if I go to Nicoles, or over to Floyd Cove, and a single fan is busting out of a 5 gallon pot, thats a different ball game. I got some sf's., from up north this spring, they just could not take the heat. Even in the shade they struggle.
Name: Mayo
The Netherlands, Europe (Zone 9a)
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Mayo62
Oct 21, 2015 12:21 PM CST
Nysbadmk8 said: Typically growers will do line outs a month or so before fall, so when the spring rush happens, they just dig and ship.


The good side of that is that the plants and roots will have a lot less damage Thumbs up
Dividing must be quite stressful for a plant Sad


Mayo

a DL flower a day keeps the doctor away
Name: Fred Manning
Lillian Alabama

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spunky1
Oct 21, 2015 2:32 PM CST
I stopped selling single fans 99% of the time, there will always be an exception or two. All of my 2014,15, and 16 introductions were line out as double or triple fans. The daylilies I buy from others are lined out the same way. I still buy single fans on the lily auction if its something I want to hybridize with. As far as other people selling single fans, more power to them if there having success.
Name: Theresa Maris
Bowling Green,KY (Zone 6b)
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tgarden711
Oct 21, 2015 4:11 PM CST
I don't buy anything unless it s a double fan. I am too old and I do not want to wait 2 years for something to bloom. When I sell mine they are always at least a double fan, usually more.
Name: Cynthia (Cindy)
Melvindale, Mi (Zone 5b)
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Hemlady
Oct 22, 2015 6:08 AM CST
I would prefer a double fan too but if it is something I really want I will buy a single fan. I also sell double fans of a cultivar but usually give 3 to 4 fans of the cultivar as a bonus.
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Name: Guybo
Blenheim, Ontario (Zone 5b)
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Guybo
Oct 22, 2015 7:57 AM CST
Very interesting thread!

Allow me to discuss this from a vendor's perspective.

We do very little hybridizing because it simply takes to long to get results. Six or seven years before one can register a plant makes hybridizing a "no-go" for us (three years before bloom & then three years for stability reasons as dictated by AHS).

So we buy - mainly from US suppliers, and only a few will export to Canada. The LA is not a viable option - most don't export, and of those that do, many will do so only on a larger order, so we can't watch for a plant to be reasonable price and then pounce on it. We can not import from some states (e.g. Calf.) due to disease/insect or other issues. If we have an order over a certain value, then we get have additional bonding/brokerage charges that drive the cost way up.

So the bottom line is that I only buy plants once they have been around for a few years, and then only a single or double fan of each. Once I get them, I plant them in our fields, and as such can only offer a single fan for sale - that is all I have - one or two or three singles. The following year, I might have two or three or five singles. In year 3, if I haven't sold any yet, and if the plant increases sufficiently, I will maybe have 3 or 4 double fans available. At that time I will offer DFs for sale (the plants are now 5 or more years after introduction).

I guess the alternative is to not show the plants on our web site until they are of DF status, but that would be like not telling anyone that you have a new grandchild until it doesn't soil it's diapers http://garden.org/i/s/lol.gif


Hope that helps explain our position - and just letting you know that I envy your ability to purchase from the LA and especially envy the locations where you can do 2 or 3 generations in a single year!

Cheers,
Giles
May the blooms be with you!

Name: Mayo
The Netherlands, Europe (Zone 9a)
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Mayo62
Oct 22, 2015 11:23 AM CST
hi Guy,

I understand your predicament, but..
you can still count yourself lucky compared with European nurseries Thumbs up

They, and 'addicts' like me, can't even buy SF's anymore thanks to the import ban.. Sad

Mayo

a DL flower a day keeps the doctor away
Name: Julie
Roanoke, VA (Zone 7a)
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floota
Oct 22, 2015 11:45 AM CST
I've been growing daylilies for over 30 years, have been an AHS member for nearly 20 years, and have been purchasing daylilies in fairly large quantities for many years, although not as many as in those early years when I'd buy entire collections . The selling of single fans is not a "new trend" by any means. It's been around for years, but years ago, it was only seen on the newest introductions . All of you who purchase daylilies from breeders know that the newest plants are often in short supply and they often command high and sometimes ridiculous prices. Each person's budget, growing space, and tastes are different, that's a given.

But goodness, it is a free market. No one twists our arms and makes us purchase a single fan, it's our choice, thankfully. As a seller on the LA, I almost never have sold a single fan. Those RARE instances when I've done it have been times when I purchased a new expensive plant and it just didn't like my climate/ garden and didn't thrive. After a few years, I'd be ready for that valuable garden space to go to a plant that would be happier here. I always sold SF's with the admonition that the plant didn't seem to like my climate and IMHO would be happier in a more southern growing zone. ( even with the admonition, people still purchased, sometimes in colder climates.) Usually I sell triple fans or clumps, as that's what I'd like to receive as a buyer. When I infrequently purchase from the LA, if there's something quite expensive that I really want , I might take a chance on a SF, but ONLY in the spring. In this climate, I would NEVER purchase a SF in the fall especially from a more southern climate, because those have a hard time surviving winter.

In general, if you MUST have the latest and most trendy plants out there, IMHO you're better off to purchase them directly from their breeder when possible. There was a big - well, I'll just call it for what it was - PUBLIC STINK - raised last year at a Regional symposium by one of the top sellers on the LA who was very upset at a few of the other sellers who sell a lot of the newest plants on the LA ( not the breeders of the plants.) These sellers often offer almost new introductions from big breeders as SF's with opening bids beginning at extremely low prices ( for a plant that retailed at $100-200 just a year ago or less) Of course, people are enticed to bid, when they just saw the plant offered as a new plant for, say $200 a few months before, and now someone is offering that same plant for $14.99. Who can resist such a bargain? The statement was made at this symposium that some of these big sellers are using BAP paste to increase the plants quickly and that they are selling small BAP increased plants at these low prices, and/or taking advantage of the generosity of sellers who sometimes might be able to send 2 or 3 fans of their new introductions to a buyer. Honestly, I don't know the truth of all this, except that several top breeders were in attendance, and there was a, shall we say, "stimulating" discussion on this subject. Most people agreed that it's the buyers choice, but they also agreed that daylily hybridizers have to keep the costs up for their new introductions for several years just to break even for the costs of growing and hybridizing daylilies. I heard a lot of people say they support the breeders on this and avoid purchasing those "almost too good to be true" deals. However, this was a daylily symposium with a lot of people like me who have grown daylilies for years and made a few laps around the track. New growers who see such deals often don't know ( and don't care about the background) and only see the great deal for a cheap buy of an expensive plant. Buyer's choice and caveat emptor. That being said, there are buyers I choose to avoid on the LA because I believe their selling methods to be less than ethical, but that's my choice. There are a bunch of sellers I'd buy from in an instant, because I know they'll send quality plants. Any of you who use the LA probably have your own list of favorite vendors - your choice always!

If you're starting out and want to purchase good, reliable garden plants, it is SO much better for you to try to find sellers locally so you can see the plants performing in a local garden and then purchase them. Start with AHS Display Gardens in your area. Many of them sell their daylilies, or know growers in the area who do. They might not sell during growing season, but if you make a list, will sell to you in the fall. People who visit here often make lists and then want the plants in the fall.
Name: Mayo
The Netherlands, Europe (Zone 9a)
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Mayo62
Oct 22, 2015 1:56 PM CST
can someone explain to me what BAP paste is..? Shrug!

About re-selling new intro's..
it seems that selling one of the intro's from a collection that one doesn't like, or one of the (extra) fans a generous hybridizers has given is not too easy...
Selling it for the 'original' intro price is frowned upon, but selling it cheap (because you received it for free) is frowned upon as well...

I don't have the opportunity, but suppose I buy all 5 Stamile 2016 Tetraploid Introductions ( Lovey dubby Lovey dubby Lovey dubby !!).
I save $150 because I buy the whole collection, but say I don't like the Transitions cultivar.
What would be an acceptable price to ask for it on the LA?
Or is it frowned upon anyway, because by selling it you keep people from buying from the original hybridiser?


Mayo
a DL flower a day keeps the doctor away

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