Trees and Shrubs forum: Mystery Shrub

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Name: Leon
Indiana (Zone 5a)
Light is the shadow of God!
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TBGDN
Oct 22, 2015 2:18 PM CST
I went on an short road trip today to get some pictures of fall foliage. I ran across this one that I had seen last week. The color range is almost a burgundy in places, and there are still some green leaves on the branches.

There are about 6 or 8 smallish shrubs in the picture.
They are no more than 7-8 feet in height.
The leaves appear to be those of a domesticated pear tree.
There was (at one time, many years ago) a homestead across the road.
The old house remains and is owned by my barber. (So I can ask him questions later.)

I welcome any comments as to what these small saplings might be. Meanwhile I hope to talk with the barber soon for identity. Thanks in advance.
Thumb of 2015-10-22/TBGDN/deee70
Mystery Still Unsolved! All Thoughts Are Welcome.


Lux Umbra Dei
[Last edited by TBGDN - Nov 7, 2015 8:50 AM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #974523 (1)
Name: Michele Roth
N.E. Indiana - Zone 5b
I'm always on my way out the door..
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chelle
Oct 22, 2015 2:54 PM CST
I can't tell from the distance your photo is taken from Leon, but my guess(es) would be either chokeberry or a native dogwood. Are there any signs present now that would indicate the plant had berries? Most of our native dogwoods here are picked clean by birds fairly early, but the chokeberries are usually skipped over until later.
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Name: Leon
Indiana (Zone 5a)
Light is the shadow of God!
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: United States of America Region: Indiana Vegetable Grower
Garden Ideas: Master Level Native Plants and Wildflowers Peonies Hummingbirder Dog Lover Lilies
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TBGDN
Oct 22, 2015 3:43 PM CST
No signs of any fruit chelle of any kind. There's an old farm house across the road, and I thought somebody might have thrown some apples or pears across the fence at one time, and maybe they seeded. I will probably see my barber (who owns it) soon and maybe he can help ID. It's really pretty. I almost want to dig one up and take it home. Here I go asking for trouble. Whistling

I am editing this entry to add another picture showing how the shrubs are situated in the 'wild' environment. They are surrounded by a lot of scrub and wild grape vine! This is what the picture above looked like before I zoomed in.

Thumb of 2015-10-22/TBGDN/24bed2

Lux Umbra Dei
[Last edited by TBGDN - Oct 22, 2015 4:12 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #974564 (3)
Name: Leon
Indiana (Zone 5a)
Light is the shadow of God!
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: United States of America Region: Indiana Vegetable Grower
Garden Ideas: Master Level Native Plants and Wildflowers Peonies Hummingbirder Dog Lover Lilies
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TBGDN
Nov 6, 2015 12:54 PM CST
I liked this small tree so much that I had planned on bringing a small sapling home to transplant. After finding the owner of the property was an elderly lady and confined to a nursing home, I gave up my idea and decided instead to "admire them from the road".

Thumb of 2015-11-06/TBGDN/f28187 Thumb of 2015-11-06/TBGDN/865f9e Thumb of 2015-11-06/TBGDN/d3c783To make a long story short I stopped off at the bank in town this morning. What met my eyes as I parked was what seemed to be my "Mystery Shrub" directly in front of the truck. There were four of them carefully planted along the walkway of the bank's main entrance. I usually go through the drive-through window for small transactions, but today was just a whim to bank inside. I am so glad I found this little "mystery tree", and that I might now know what it is! Having reviewed the posts below I now must conclude that my Mystery is still un-solved!

Lux Umbra Dei
[Last edited by TBGDN - Nov 7, 2015 8:56 AM (+)]
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Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
Nov 6, 2015 2:24 PM CST
Prunus virginiana has alternate leaf arrangement. When I enlarge the first pic of your mystery shrub it looks to me as though it has opposite leaf arrangement?

Edited to add from what I can see of the buds on your first image, it looks like the terminal buds may be "goose-beak" shaped which reminds me of a Viburnum. Those would have opposite leaves and at least some have fall colour, like Viburnum prunifolium and Viburnum lentago:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5yWnGPShTAc/T3-JuiJB9tI/AAAAAAAALy...
from: http://saratogawoodswaters.blogspot.ca/2012/04/happy-discove...
and
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ptWUooLvw14/S2MncMDEedI/AAAAAAAADX...
from https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images...
[Last edited by sooby - Nov 6, 2015 2:47 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #983989 (5)
Name: Leon
Indiana (Zone 5a)
Light is the shadow of God!
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: United States of America Region: Indiana Vegetable Grower
Garden Ideas: Master Level Native Plants and Wildflowers Peonies Hummingbirder Dog Lover Lilies
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TBGDN
Nov 6, 2015 2:58 PM CST
Hi Sue, You are very correct. When I enlarge the original to the point where the pixels are almost fuzzy, the leaves are precisely opposite- not alternate. The appearance might be due to over 50% of the leaves having fallen already: However, here is a copy where I have highlighted the leaf arrangement.

Thumb of 2015-11-06/TBGDN/ae64ec

So for now the mystery goes "un-solved", but I still like whatever it is. Smiling
Thanks very much for your input. Thumbs up

Mystery Unsolved!


Lux Umbra Dei
Name: David Laderoute
Zone 5B/6 - NW MO (Zone 5b)
Ignoring Zones altogether
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DavidLMO
Dec 10, 2015 12:27 AM CST
So that label that says it is a Chokecherry is not right? [scratches head]
Seeking Feng Shui with my plants since 1976
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
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sooby
Dec 10, 2015 7:04 AM CST
The label on the chokecherry is right but it doesn't match the mystery plant in question (top of thread) although very similar.
Name: David Laderoute
Zone 5B/6 - NW MO (Zone 5b)
Ignoring Zones altogether
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DavidLMO
Dec 10, 2015 9:42 AM CST
Hmm. OK - Does look quite a bit like Chokecherry (not to be confused with Chokeberry).

The more I look at it - it could be a viburnum. There are a zillion of them.
Did/does it have berries? Never mind. Green Grin!

Try to get back next spring and capture the blooms.
Seeking Feng Shui with my plants since 1976
Name: John
Scott County, KY (Zone 5b)
You can't have too many viburnums..
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ViburnumValley
Jan 1, 2016 5:34 AM CST
Hello, TGBDN:

I believe there is no question that this is a Viburnum native to your neck of the "woods" in northern Indiana. It is very likely Viburnum prunifolium as mentioned a couple times above. If you were to collect a branch now, and take it to an amenable photo spot (like a kitchen counter, or sidewalk) where you could zoom in on the delicate parts of buds, stems, etc. - then one could rule out any of the other related species.

Without further information, I think Blackhaw Viburnum is the object of your admiration. The beaked gray terminal buds from whence next spring's flowers will emerge match (usually a much longer protuberance on Nannyberry Viburnum - Viburnum lentago) and the burgundy to red fall color is typical. The foliage on those plants appears more lustrous than many typical Blackhaw Viburnum, but certainly not unheard of. The "grouping" could be the result of several seedlings growing up - most likely from bird-deposited seed from their droppings - but could also very well be a small colony of root sprouts from a single parent plant, similar to Sumac behavior. Many people are unaware of this characteristic of many of our native viburnums.

Opposite versus alternate leaves and buds should always be noticed when trying to ID - saves all kinds of wild guessing time and chasing down incorrect species.

John
Name: Leon
Indiana (Zone 5a)
Light is the shadow of God!
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: United States of America Region: Indiana Vegetable Grower
Garden Ideas: Master Level Native Plants and Wildflowers Peonies Hummingbirder Dog Lover Lilies
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TBGDN
Jan 1, 2016 8:15 AM CST
Hi John,
I really appreciate your input. The 'colony' of about 15-20 feet in diameter was very attractive in fall color, so I couldn't resist stopping for a closer look. The tallest (I guess) was at most 7-8 feet.This area is in a fairly dense wooded location next to a narrow country road. If given a chance I'll collect a branch and see if I can get a close up of the buds as you suggest. I've even thought about adopting a small shoot for my own landscape, but I'm not willing to dig without permission.

I remember your posts from years back at the old DG site. And I am glad to see you over here at ATP as will many others!
Lux Umbra Dei
Name: David Laderoute
Zone 5B/6 - NW MO (Zone 5b)
Ignoring Zones altogether
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DavidLMO
Jan 1, 2016 11:58 AM CST
ViburnumValley said:
I believe there is no question that this is a Viburnum native to your neck of the "woods" in northern Indiana. It is very likely Viburnum prunifolium ...... I think Blackhaw Viburnum is the object of your admiration.


I tip my hat to you. John!! And I totally agree with this:

"You can't have too many viburnums"

I am up to 9 or so and I definitely need more!! I plan to add a couple more in '16. I just got started with them 3 years.

HNY
Seeking Feng Shui with my plants since 1976
Name: Leon
Indiana (Zone 5a)
Light is the shadow of God!
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: United States of America Region: Indiana Vegetable Grower
Garden Ideas: Master Level Native Plants and Wildflowers Peonies Hummingbirder Dog Lover Lilies
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TBGDN
Jan 1, 2016 12:11 PM CST
David,
This is one of my favorites.
The birds love them in winter for a sunny shelter, and bees for a food source in spring.
Lux Umbra Dei
Name: David Laderoute
Zone 5B/6 - NW MO (Zone 5b)
Ignoring Zones altogether
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DavidLMO
Jan 1, 2016 11:08 PM CST
I have that. Thumbs up
Seeking Feng Shui with my plants since 1976
Name: John
Scott County, KY (Zone 5b)
You can't have too many viburnums..
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ViburnumValley
Jan 11, 2016 9:07 PM CST
So - which others do you have?
Thumb of 2016-01-12/ViburnumValley/272dd3

John
Name: Leon
Indiana (Zone 5a)
Light is the shadow of God!
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Region: United States of America Region: Indiana Vegetable Grower
Garden Ideas: Master Level Native Plants and Wildflowers Peonies Hummingbirder Dog Lover Lilies
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TBGDN
Jan 12, 2016 6:50 AM CST
Hi John,
The only other cultivar I have is 'Burkwood'. It is not as
prolific in bloom as the Judd: But still a good shrub for the landscape.

Thumb of 2016-01-12/TBGDN/1091b2 Thumb of 2016-01-12/TBGDN/36af0c

Lux Umbra Dei
Name: John
Scott County, KY (Zone 5b)
You can't have too many viburnums..
Region: United States of America Region: Kentucky Farmer Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Enjoys or suffers cold winters Dog Lover Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
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ViburnumValley
Jan 16, 2016 6:36 PM CST
You just need to wait for your Burkwood to grow up...


Thumb of 2016-01-17/ViburnumValley/ebd28e


Thumb of 2016-01-17/ViburnumValley/70e9e5


Thumb of 2016-01-17/ViburnumValley/1a70ec


Thumb of 2016-01-17/ViburnumValley/835c91

John
Name: David Laderoute
Zone 5B/6 - NW MO (Zone 5b)
Ignoring Zones altogether
Seed Starter Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Level 1
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DavidLMO
Jan 16, 2016 6:59 PM CST
Nice specimen John. My Burkwood is ~ 3 feet or so. Gonna make a great plant.
Seeking Feng Shui with my plants since 1976

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