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Nov 13, 2015 4:39 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level Roses Ponds Permaculture
Peonies Lilies Irises Dog Lover Daylilies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
That is just plain awful. Wow.
I'm not ordering from them, but I was wondering about that rose since there was no info to be found on it!
Now I'm looking for a rose named 'Dido'. I received it from the rare plant auction, but I didn't bid on it. I'm hoping it is hardy. My computer's Internet connection is down once again, and I'm trying to search using the phone. I don't see anything in our database on this name, and help me find says their entry is incorrect. Any ideas?
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
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Nov 13, 2015 4:49 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
I see only one 'Dido' on HMF, and there's no indication that the entry is incorrect.

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose...

If this is the one you have, I'll be glad to create an entry for it.
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Nov 13, 2015 4:52 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level Roses Ponds Permaculture
Peonies Lilies Irises Dog Lover Daylilies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Zuzu, click on the photo tab. It says the photo doesn't match the description. I don't see a description other than spinossima. Will that rose be hardy in zone 6?
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
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Nov 13, 2015 4:58 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
Odd note because it calls the rose Didot, but that's not listed as one of the alternative cultivar names. Blinking

I think any hybrid spinosissima would be hardy in zone 6.
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Nov 13, 2015 5:17 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level Roses Ponds Permaculture
Peonies Lilies Irises Dog Lover Daylilies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
From what I've read so far, hybrid spinossisima roses are very spiny...spread outward, and bloom once a year with a single blah bloom. Ugh.
The others that I won are better. I got a hybrid musk by Moore--'Keith's Delight ', a hybrid bracteata, 'Out of the Night', also by Moore, and a mini climber by Moore, 'Hi Ho'. I grew Hi Ho years ago and was happy to see it again. I suspect it was donated by Burling because she carries it.
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
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Nov 13, 2015 5:37 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level Roses Ponds Permaculture
Peonies Lilies Irises Dog Lover Daylilies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Wellll can I whisper never mind....?
*Blush*
"Dido" had a 2nd tag, and it says 'Salmon Impressionist' and that is one that I did buy! My mood just got a lot better.
Zuzu, we don't have Hi Ho in the database. I just submitted the name but didn't see where to add any info. Maybe because I'm using the mobile site?
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
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Nov 13, 2015 6:56 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
You can't add info until the new plant proposal has been approved. Smiling
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Nov 17, 2015 8:12 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
Here's the first bloom on my new Desperado from K&M. The red margin got wider as the bloom opened more fully, but it got spotty from the rain, so it didn't look as good as these first photos.

Thumb of 2015-11-18/zuzu/4e1bfd

This is a replacement for an own-root plant that has never bloomed in the last six years.

In 2009 I bought four own-root hybrid teas from Almost Heaven, a nursery that is now defunct. I bought them because there were no photos of the roses anywhere at that time -- not even on HMF.com -- and I wanted to fill that photo gap. Unfortunately, three of them took two or three years to bloom, by which time there were photos of all three on HMF.com, so mine were not needed, and the fourth, Desperado, still hasn't bloomed, even though it is still alive.

Almost Heaven's roses were the tiniest things I had ever seen for sale on the Web. The container was more like a glorified thimble than a band. I even took a picture of one of them next to my cat Mambo. You can see that the container is only about two or three times the size of Mambo's front paw.

Thumb of 2015-11-18/zuzu/073010

They're still pretty much the same size, and a couple of them are even smaller than they were initially, but all four are still alive, so I guess that's something.

I wish I had taken a picture of the K&M Desperado next to Mambo when it arrived. I can assure you that it's bigger than the cat.
Avatar for porkpal
Nov 17, 2015 9:57 PM CST
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX (Zone 9a)
Cat Lover Charter ATP Member Keeper of Poultry I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Dog Lover Keeps Horses
Roses Plant Identifier Farmer Raises cows Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 2
Odd: it looks like a healthy, if little, plant. How did it even grow to that size if it can't really thrive on its own roots? The cat, of course, is gorgeous.
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Nov 17, 2015 10:25 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
Most roses can grow on their own roots, but it's the rare hybrid tea that can truly thrive enough on its own roots to grow large and floriferous. I have some own-root hybrid teas that look great, but most of them just stay small and rarely bloom.

According to my plant list, I have 584 hybrid teas, but only about 20 of them are growing well on their own roots. About 400 of the 584 are grafted, and the remaining own-root hybrid teas (other than those 20) aren't worth the real estate they're occupying. I'm planning some big changes, opting for maximum impact at minimal care.
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Nov 18, 2015 7:04 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
As a public service Big Grin (and also because I like to go through my plant lists), I went through my list of 584 hybrid teas and found 21 that grow well on their own roots. So, if you want to grow hybrid teas and you have a preference for own-root roses, these are some you might consider:

Antoine Rivoire
Autumn
Beryl Bach
Break o' Day
Chantilly Lace
Condesa de Sastago
Contrast
Ellen Wilmott
Fee
Helen Hayes
J.C. Thornton
Johnnie Walker
Jolly
La Jolla
Lemon Spice
Naga Belle
Peach Beauty
Rina Herholdt
Shot Silk
Sutter's Gold
Yankee Doodle

Obviously, this is not a complete list. Most of my hybrid teas are grafted, so I have no idea how well they grow on their own roots, but these 21 own-root hybrid teas look as good as the grafted hybrid teas in my garden.
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Nov 18, 2015 7:37 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level Roses Ponds Permaculture
Peonies Lilies Irises Dog Lover Daylilies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Years ago, I kept detailed spreadsheets on all my roses, daylilies, and iris. I evaluated each one twice yearly. When my computer crashed, I lost my list. A few weeks ago, I spent an afternoon making a new spreadsheet for the roses. I was totally shocked to find I grow exactly 500 roses. I have 26 new ones ordered, and most likely I'll be removing a few of my one cane wonders. The own root hybrid teas are slow growers, but the worst are the hybrid teas that I bought from local nurseries. For some reason, I do much much better with bare root roses. It may be that the roses don't get hardened off properly after I buy them. I'm looking forward to the new bare roots grafted on multiflora. They'll get here tomorrow!! Hurray! our daytime temps are still in 50s and 60s, but nighttime temps are near freezing. I'm going to plant them in the ground.

The ones I ordered from Regan are own root, bare root for the most part. They won't arrive until late March.
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
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Nov 18, 2015 7:42 PM CST
Moderator
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
Regan doesn't sell very many own-root roses and I was horrified to see that some of the Austin roses I wanted from Regan were own-root. I passed them up.
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Nov 19, 2015 3:48 AM CST
Name: Neal Linville
Winchester, KY (Zone 6a)
Bulbs Charter ATP Member Cottage Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises Roses
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 2
I've noted several on Regan's site listed as own root and bare root too. Is that correct? I think a plant would have to be reasonably sized to send bare root, big enough to demonstrate it grows well on its own roots at least.
"...and don't think the garden loses its ecstasy in winter. It's quiet, but the roots are down there riotous." Rumi
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Nov 19, 2015 4:23 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
Yes, Regan's own-root roses would have to be bare-root as well. They don't sell container roses by mail. And I agree that they would have to be of a reasonable size. What happens after that, though, is my concern.

I don't know whether you remember an own-root nursery called Amity. I think the nursery might still be open for business, but they don't do mail-order anymore. I bought many lovely plants from them, including many hybrid teas. I still have them, but not one of them has grown past 2 feet tall. Other roses from Amity (floribundas and shrub roses) have grown large, but the hybrid teas are permanently stuck at 18-24 inches and won't grow any taller.
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Nov 19, 2015 4:38 AM CST
Name: Neal Linville
Winchester, KY (Zone 6a)
Bulbs Charter ATP Member Cottage Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises Roses
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 2
I'd like to try a few of those own root plants here. I had pretty good performance from a few own root Austins till they got RRV, and I like the idea of starting out with a beefier plant.

I wish every rose I want was available on multiflora rootstock, that seems to make a big difference here. I was digging out a multiflora seedling a couple of weeks ago and thinking what a waste of a good root system, then started considering experimenting with some bud grafting. Not sure I want to jump down another rabbit hole though, LOL!
"...and don't think the garden loses its ecstasy in winter. It's quiet, but the roots are down there riotous." Rumi
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Nov 19, 2015 4:54 AM CST
Moderator
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Region: Ukraine Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses Clematis
Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages Plant Database Moderator Garden Ideas: Master Level
Maybe you should start out with Wisconsin Roses as a learning experience -- sort of a halfway point to grafting your own.

http://www.wiroses.com/index.p...

Steve will send you a rose budded onto multiflora rootstock. When the canes of the rootstock start to grow leaves, you cut off everything above the bud-eye. The rose then grows into a great big, beautiful rose bush.

http://www.wiroses.com/instruc...

He has a small but exciting assortment, and the prices are very low by today's standards. Be sure to check out the sale list of roses in small numbers. The most exciting ones are always on that list. I see it now includes Hot Romance, Oksana, Red Intuition, and Silverado -- all four are splendidly gorgeous.

http://www.wiroses.com/catalog...
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Nov 19, 2015 5:12 AM CST
Name: Neal Linville
Winchester, KY (Zone 6a)
Bulbs Charter ATP Member Cottage Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Irises Roses
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Ideas: Level 2
Oooohhh, what a great idea! Interesting work he's doing there!
"...and don't think the garden loses its ecstasy in winter. It's quiet, but the roots are down there riotous." Rumi
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Nov 19, 2015 9:03 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level Roses Ponds Permaculture
Peonies Lilies Irises Dog Lover Daylilies Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Neal, I'll hold your hand and jump down that rabbit hole with you!
I ordered from WI Roses last year and royally screwed up a few of them, but one, Hot Princess, did grow into a wonderful rosebush. (I actually think I cut off the wrong part somehow, even after watching his videos several times. *Blush* )
This year I ordered 3 more from him, AND I ordered the budding tape and knife off Amazon. I kept the rootstock from the WIRoses that I messed up, so maybe I can use it for my experimental budding. There's plenty of multiflora roses growing wild near me so I could dig those up to use.
I have noticed that the roses I buy that are budded on multiflora grow much better than the Huey roses, and the best part is, I have yet to see a sucker from a rose on multiflora. Supposedly my alkaline soil is all wrong for multiflora but my roses aren't reading those rules, I guess.
We had another big earthquake here this morning. It was 4.7, which isn't much by California standards, but it was enough to shake the house, rattle glasses and scare the dog!!! Amazing how much noise wine glasses can make when they are getting bounced around! It even woke my husband and he sleeps through the worst hail and thunderstorms. Our earthquakes are 3 miles deep which makes them travel further and be felt over a bigger distance. The epicenter was 106 miles from us. Mother Nature does not like fracking! The poor dog did not want to leave our bed after that happened. The 2 older dogs didn't seem to care. Maybe they have gotten used to it by now. Not me... Shrug!
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Image
Nov 19, 2015 11:00 AM CST
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Level 1
Zuzu ...

I think it might be an enhancement to the ATP database if you posted a comment to the rose page for the roses that do well own root for you.

It's information that many people are searching for these days.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.

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