Plant ID forum: Red Basil or Mint ?

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Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
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jimard8
Dec 28, 2015 8:51 PM CST
Any thoughts on this , A rather poor set of pictures , most say mint ,, I say a perhaps a rare species Basil ,
Thumb of 2015-12-29/jimard8/a67323
first picture top leaves is how it usually looks , turns purple to blood red in cold weather , growing here , outdoors all year since 2010 approx ,


2 is fuzzy and recent


Thumb of 2015-12-29/jimard8/ad70b0


3 another showing the darker color of cold weather


Thumb of 2015-12-29/jimard8/a64381

In the lower right of the second picture you can see a very dark color of this plant ,, tastes like lemon cleaner , tangs up the tea ,,

In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
Name: Carol
Santa Ana,Ca. (Zone 10b)
Sunset zone 22
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ctcarol
Dec 28, 2015 9:05 PM CST
I think I'm seeing blooms about to open in the last picture(bottom center)
Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
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jimard8
Dec 28, 2015 9:11 PM CST
It is possible on last years stems center left old stalk ,( the longer darker in center , it is possible ,

when this blooms , it rosette stalks like Basil ,, not the million seed spire of the mint ,,
This plant has caught my interest a few times m it came in a packet of lime Basil , but those died this lived on and looked slightly different even then ,,
In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
central Illinois
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jmorth
Dec 29, 2015 8:54 AM CST
Is the stem near the ground woody?
Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.
Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
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jimard8
Dec 29, 2015 9:03 AM CST
Jmorth When the plant gets larger some years , the plant makes a slightly more fiber like wood ,,,,, only not ) I would describe it nearer a flower base
In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
central Illinois
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jmorth
Dec 29, 2015 9:24 AM CST
Most basils aren't hardy, some are described as half hardy.
The woody stems usually are related to maturity. If present the leaves lose their power punch.
Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.
Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
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jimard8
Dec 29, 2015 9:32 AM CST
This is the only Hardy Basil here I have ever seen ,
If I grow a huge number of large seeded Basil ,they will self sow ,not hardy though ,

This one is a slow to develop and has made a new plant a few at a time every couple years , In the second photo that is actually a stem drooping from a small fence and the plant is a good 3ft tall
In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
[Last edited by jimard8 - Dec 29, 2015 9:41 AM (+)]
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central Illinois
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jmorth
Dec 29, 2015 10:03 AM CST
Not many perennial basils though there is one from India but I doubt it's hardy. I'd postulate it's some other mint.
Nothing that's been done can ever be changed.
Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
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jimard8
Dec 29, 2015 10:13 AM CST
Thai Basil some others I hear and read several are perennial in zones 8 ,9 , etc , I do not know about that ,
I read somewhere , a while ago , their was a Red Basil Mint ,?
A Red Basil that crossed with a Mint

Only problem with that? , this is grown from seed and two smaller plants the same from self sown seeds , Whatever it is, it is not a cross or Hybrid
Maybe I will remember to get seeds next time if it lives on
A litte chat about something interesting , Thank you all Thank You! Smiling
In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
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JRsbugs
Dec 29, 2015 11:04 AM CST
Sweet Thai Basil has purple stems, and leaves can turn purplish. The flavour isn't like lemon, but then I don't imagine lemon cleaner is either. What colour are the flowers?

http://www.hobbyfarms.com/crops-and-gardening/basil-varietie...

https://pixen.wordpress.com/2008/05/03/thai-sweet-basil-hora...

It is possible for tender things to survive very cold conditions if conditions allow. After our very harsh winter of 2010/11 where we had constant temps below freezing for 7 weeks, down to around -17C, I found two apples in perfect condition which were covered by a few leaves.

This article on Basil might help ..

http://gernot-katzers-spice-pages.com/engl/Ocim_bas.html



[Last edited by JRsbugs - Dec 29, 2015 11:04 AM (+)]
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Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
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jimard8
Dec 29, 2015 2:05 PM CST
Flowers were bluish -white last Bloom , That is an interesting article Thumbs up Hurray!

A camphor or a wild Indian , Stems look Anthocyan or African this time of year.
I had not thought about the taste being a camphor , that describes the taste , Blinking

My guess would be an African Camphor Basil , I learned something , as they aren't suppose be hardy beyond zone 10 according to info , This will be 6 year old plant the larger one in June 2016 ,
In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
[Last edited by jimard8 - Dec 29, 2015 2:40 PM (+)]
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Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
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JRsbugs
Dec 29, 2015 3:42 PM CST
Perennial basil species from Africa (Ocimum kilimandschari­cum) and Asia (Ocimum canum) have recently been intro­duced to the Euro­pean herb and gar­dening market. These species has a strong, but less pleasant flavour; hybrids between them and Medi­terranean basil are a recent in­novation, with novel appear­ance and flavour, and enjoy growing popu­larity.


I was going to suggest the perennial one! It's not likely to be a cross as the African Blue hybrid is sterile.

The African species, O. kili­mandschari­cum (often known as “camphor basil”), is characterized by much camphor besides 1,8 cineol; camphor is also found, albeit in lesser quantities, in kili­mandschari­cum hybrids with O. basilicum (e. g., African Blue).


http://gernot-katzers-spice-pages.com/engl/Ocim_bas.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_blue_basil
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
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JRsbugs
Dec 29, 2015 3:47 PM CST
60 (100)cm, Kilimanjaro Basil is a quite tall, woody, semiperennial species from Rwanda, Africa. Makes long flowers spikes with small white to pale pink flowers and oval, pubescent leaves with a strong camphor fragrance.


http://www.rareplants.es/shop/product.asp?P_ID=7569

The height fits.
Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
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jimard8
Dec 29, 2015 4:15 PM CST
The last link looks Very near , and it is not a full plant ,Runs very sparingly from roots ,As before , The full sun does not fit completely , It tends to , or seems to , like growing as an understory plant , Southeast morning side of an Apple tree is where it is growing , 10 ft or so from the trunk of the tree ,
That might be one reason that info says best grown in a pot , Would make it more compact and better looking ,
Stinkweed and Ground ivy are all that try to crowd it .
Anyway ,, some garden fun Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Thank You!
Perennial Northern Basil , something Novel and new to me , Then to work on better taste once they become usual ? Blinking
In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
Seed Starter Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Frogs and Toads Garden Procrastinator Cottage Gardener Birds
Annuals Hummingbirder Region: Indiana Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies
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jimard8
Dec 29, 2015 4:26 PM CST
Okay we will go with Kilimanjaro Basil
Except , This one lives to -10 below zero ,
Has darker color , except as new seedling .
and Grows in part shade .
In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
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JRsbugs
Dec 29, 2015 4:39 PM CST
I would go a little purple in those cold conditions too. Hilarious! Colder conditions can make a difference to colour, so can soil.

Being on the south-eastern side of a tree it would get first sun of the day which would help. The other plants could help keep the ground from getting too wet and provide protection to the base of the plant. Any leaves covering it over winter will also help. It's a micro climate, but still quite unusual for it to survive.

It seems to fit, unless there's another basil like it but that seems doubtful.



Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
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jimard8
Dec 29, 2015 4:53 PM CST
As said , Everything is a match , as to view of the plant itself , The only difference ,, Is from the top leaves to the top of the blooms , This plant here , was half that .
Simply a shorter top bloom stem , A lot of purple types are like that also .

I hope it lives long enough and seeds again , so I can try a few more , There are two or three smaller growing under the leaves , developing their roots , Hurray!

There are a few mutation possibilities that could of occurred
It had been down to 26 or 28 degrees a few times , that knocked down and browned the taller stems , the 2nd photo showing the end of the stem as bright red purple , The smaller have kept right on growing , I will have to walk back there a few times and see how long the smaller ones show their top leaves as to temperature , oops I am using Fahrenheit temperature scale ,
Only ten below is still darned cold ,
In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
[Last edited by jimard8 - Dec 29, 2015 4:57 PM (+)]
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Name: Greene
Savannah, GA (Sunset 28) (Zone 8b)
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greene
Dec 29, 2015 5:51 PM CST
Am I reading correctly...six years old? Do you have any photos of the blooms taken in those years? Maybe I am too cautious but I don't suppose you could wait for next year when the new growth appears and the flowers bloom. That would be a better way to be sure what plant you have.
Sunset Zone 28, AHS Heat Zone 9, USDA zone 8b~~"Leaf of Faith"
Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
Seed Starter Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Frogs and Toads Garden Procrastinator Cottage Gardener Birds
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jimard8
Dec 29, 2015 10:18 PM CST
greene I have a few in my files of the photo's , their not marked , I have way too many to search without naming them ,
You are reading correctly . I hardly believe it is possible myself .
if I find them I will show them .

This is 2 in ID for photo's of blooms next season
In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
[Last edited by jimard8 - Dec 29, 2015 11:10 PM (+)]
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Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
Seed Starter Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Frogs and Toads Garden Procrastinator Cottage Gardener Birds
Annuals Hummingbirder Region: Indiana Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies
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jimard8
Dec 31, 2015 3:48 PM CST
Here it is today , ice and snow on it , This is probably next years runner start ,(one that I can see ) 21f - 29f degrees outside
Thumb of 2015-12-31/jimard8/aee2bf

In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure

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