I keep seeing references to a wish list. Is there such a feature that I'm unaware of?

molanic said:I had a thought for an option to make the swap more balanced for participants who aren't available to participate during the live swapping portion on any of the days. What if instead of using the star system for our wishlist, we had an ordinal ranking system for the whole list (1,2,3, etc.). Then at the preset time each day, the system took dibs on our behalf based on our lists. Like everyone gets their first choice, then second, and so on. Conflicts could be handled automatically on a fair rotation.

Participants would still have the ability to reorder and edit their wish lists in between the live swap times. I realize people still have the ability to get dibs any time of day already. But, I thought some people might feel like they are missing out by not being able to be present for the swapping frenzy at the start time each day. Perhaps even some unforeseen circumstance... might make them miss the whole swapping portion of the swap.

It worked really well as is for me, but I thought that might be an option for future versions of the system.

If the system automatically picked for someone who wasn't there, then they would beat the person who took time to attend. With that system there would be no reason to attend at all. Just key in a couple hundred wish items and come back at the end of the swap to see what you got. Plus the complication of trying to program for a fair rotational system.

greenthumb99 said:I keep seeing references to a wish list. Is there such a feature that I'm unaware of?

Yes, you are able to create a wish list in the swap. You can then make your picks directly from the list.

Horntoad, we are talking about a different wish list. I initially mentioned setting up a separate section for requesting seeds that had not been offered yet. As of now, the only way to ask for an item that hasn't been offered is by posting it in your info box or leaving a comment.

Greenthumb is talking about the wanted list from the Plant Lists section because I had mentioned it earlier as a possibility for linking with the swap tool.

Greenthumb, on the left hand side there is a section for Plant Lists where you can set up your own Wants and Haves lists. Here is my Wants list: http://garden.org/lists/view/s...

Horntoad said:
If the system automatically picked for someone who wasn't there, then they would beat the person who took time to attend. With that system there would be no reason to attend at all. Just key in a couple hundred wish items and come back at the end of the swap to see what you got. Plus the complication of trying to program for a fair rotational system.

What I'm suggesting would be an identical experience for all the participants. The system would handle everyone in the swaps dibs, based on their wishlist ranking. It would level the playing field for individuals who maybe had to work everyday during the set swapping time (or are sleeping if in a very different timezone), had a bad internet connection, some unforeseen circumstance, etc. People would still have a chance to re-evaluate and re-order their lists prior to each swapping session.

It could just be an option when setting up the swap. Like, setting the swapping portion to "manual or automatic". I think it would be most beneficial in large swaps, or those with international participants where there is more than a 2-3 hour time difference.

What if two or more people put dibs on the same item and there was only one offer...who would get it

Having "the system" doing the swapping basically eliminates the members from actively participating. Community = people.

SSG - thanks for the details on the wish list. It did not occur to me that a wish list for seeds would be part of one's plant list.

luvsgrtdanes said:What if two or more people put dibs on the same item and there was only one offer...who would get it

I asked a similar question of Dave a few months back. The answer was something like: whoever got in first, even by a millisecond, would get it. For true, literal, same INSTANT click the button ... that might be random.

But so extremely rare as to be hard to cause even deliberately.

And I would think: therefore impossible to test.

Wait - your scenario is different, I think. If everyone set up their "Wish Stars" ahead of time, everyone's wishes would be activated at 12:00:00:000 ATP Seed Swap time and hence EVERYONE would have 20-way ties. If it were me, I would resolve THOSE ties using the timestamp on each "Wish Star".

But that's pure speculation.

I for one would not participate in a swap like that. The entire swap could be started and finished as fast as the computer could calculate it. Everyone makes a wishlist of all the seeds they are interested in. At the designated start time the system tallies up who gets what and sends out a system message giving you a link to what you owe and what you will be getting. No thanks !

I totally agree with Jay. It would kind of take away the whole idea of "swapping" for me...

I have never participated in a seed swap or plant swap with lots of people, and I had no idea it could possibly get so complicated. It sounds more like planning a trip to the moon than swapping a few seeds.

Larry, it's not at all complicated! Some of us just bring boxes of seeds to the swap and sort through them while eating Chinese buffet. Right now we're just playing around with this awesome tool that @dave made, and dreaming up all of the fun possibilities that these magical coding fairies could make for us. You know, just as a coding exercise for his children!

Greenthumb, I had mentioned the Plant List idea only for plant swaps. I didn't think it would be as useful for seed swaps.

But if you click on the edit button on a plant on the "HAVES" section of your Plant List, you can set the plant as

Available for trade as:
Plants
Seeds
Cuttings
Roots
Pollen

I don't know if this page is visible, but it's on this page:
http://garden.org/lists/manage...

It wasn't sure how practical it would be to link individuals' Plant Lists to the Swap Tools. If I could just refer fellow swappers to my HAVES/Available for Trade page, it would be so much easier than re-listing them somewhere else.

Seedfork said:I have never participated in a seed swap or plant swap with lots of people, and I had no idea it could possibly get so complicated. It sounds more like planning a trip to the moon than swapping a few seeds.

This system makes it very easy.

I think that talking about it is complicated. Using Dave's new system is pretty easy ... as long as the instructions are kept short.

Usually, "short" is beyond my ability. STOPPING typing is hard.

RickCorey said:I think that talking about it is complicated. Using Dave's new system is pretty easy ... as long as the instructions are kept short.

Usually, "short" is beyond my ability. STOPPING typing is hard.

I didn't even think that word was in your vocabulary.

Abbreviated, condensed, extracted, concise, brief, terse, breviloquent, succinct, pithy, curt, decurtate and laconic.

I know what it means, it's just hard to say that and no more!

Actually, doing some swapping ahead of time (for an in-person swap ) makes things less complicated... if half your seeds are swapped before the party, you have that much more time to just socialize. We've maintained have/want/promised lists in the past, by editing posts on a separate thread (one post per participant), but Dave's new swap tool makes things much easier!

I'm probably not doing a very good job of putting into words what my idea was. The whole swap would still take a week or whatever the time frame is set to, so there would still be the chatting aspect, adding new items, picking new things, reordering wishes, etc. People that are able to, would even be present right when new tickets are issued each day to see who gets what in real time. The only part that would actually be automated is clicking to spend those tickets right when they become available each day. After that initial frenzy, remaining tickets could still be leisurely spent before the next ticket disbursement. Considering how many unspent tickets there were in our swap it would only really make a difference in allocating the more limited seeds in those first few days when tickets are fewer. The conflicts would be handled on a fair rotation, so that the most limited and desirable seeds don't always go to whoever can be at their computer clicking the fastest. I realize it is probably an overly complicated system to implement, especially if no one is interested. That is why I was just throwing it out there as a possible idea, and not really a complaint or request. Hopefully, I was able to explain my thinking a little better, so I don't sound like a total loon.

I agree the current system sounds more complicated than it actually is when we talk about it. But, once you join and get going it is really simple to use and efficient! I have done quite a few group swaps. Some are totally random, some themed, some wish list types, and now this choose your own type. The totally random ones give you some surprises, but also a lot of seeds that you can't use and have to re-home. The wish list swaps can not only fill your wishes, but also give you some surprises that are very targeted to your interests. I think they are the most work for all involved though. Our current host on the "What's Left on My Wish List Swap", checks every incoming packet against our wish lists to make sure it is a match. Then she redistributes duplicates and tries to make sure we get at least as many packets back as we send it. Plus, now she is dealing with redistributing packets sent in for people that have vanished from the swap with no explanation. That has got to be a tremendous amount of work for 20+ participants!

I also see a distinction between the first days of frenzied competition for the most-sought-after packets, and the leisurely pace that comes after you either got, or lost, your three-and-four-star wishes.

Actually, if the "automated" idea caught on, it could reduce the first few days of frenzy into a 20-second Big Bang.

The automated sequence could run once every few seconds, as if that were a whole day. Every few seconds, each person would get the 3 packets currently highest in their Starred List. I think we would have to limit how many "four star" and "three star" items each person could lost, so no one just put four stars on every packet they might like.

After 5-10 rounds like that, each person would have up to 15-30 packets. Then the leisurely chat-and-swap period would begin at a more human pace, like 5-8 tickets per day.

There always seems to be interactions where one person's bid or question excites other people about that or related things.

And there is a KEY aspect to swaps where one person asks for X, and then one or more people say: "Oh, X? I got that, here ya go!"

Aren't they the most pleasurable parts of a swap?