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Feb 15, 2016 8:14 PM CST
Name: Linda
Carmel, IN (Zone 5b)
Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Charter ATP Member Region: Indiana Dog Lover Container Gardener
Seed Starter Herbs Vegetable Grower Cut Flowers Butterflies Birds
Welcome, Craig Welcome! Thanks for posting that link to your website....I'm anxious to check it out. I'm really interested in learning more about the dwarf tomatoes, and your experience with them.

Linda
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Feb 15, 2016 9:16 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Kayleigh
(Zone 5a)
Butterflies Seed Starter Plays in the sandbox Lilies Irises Region: Indiana
Canning and food preservation Hummingbirder Daylilies Cut Flowers Cat Lover Vegetable Grower
Wow, Rick, thanks for the great ideas. I just may try the nail method using my gas range stove. It's funny you posted, because I just recently was contemplating how in the world I would get my arm, the nail and hammer down in the bucket to pound a hole. I've tried it from the outside bottom of the bucket, and broke the bottom of the bucket. I figured I'd figure out something. Have all the seeds now; probably be starting some soon.

And yes, Welcome! Craig, and thanks for the link.
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Feb 15, 2016 11:09 PM CST
Name: Mike Dunton
Liberal, Oregon (Zone 8b)
Plant Database Moderator Tomato Heads Farmer Organic Gardener Composter Heirlooms
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Herbs Seller of Garden Stuff Vermiculture Region: Pacific Northwest
I want to welcome Craig ( @CLeH ) too. Glad to finally get you here Craig Smiling

Like Craig mentioned, this is a crazy-busy time of year for a lot of us in the gardening world. I know that personally, my "spare time" is extremely limited so my ATP time is compressed and limited to popping in, making sure that I am caught up on moderation duties, maybe quickly scan select forums, etc.

So as a reminder, if you do have questions for a specific person (or just want them to see a comment) remember to add the "@" in from of a user name in your forum post so that they will know that folks are looking to get a hold of them.

~Mike
Biodiversity preservationist, horticultural historian, seedsman and farmer. Seedsman Hall of Fame

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Feb 16, 2016 1:29 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
HoosierHarvester said: ... I just may try the nail method using my gas range stove. It's funny you posted, because I just recently was contemplating how in the world I would get my arm, the nail and hammer down in the bucket to pound a hole. I've tried it from the outside bottom of the bucket, and broke the bottom of the bucket. ...


>> and broke the bottom ...

It's awkward unless you can prop up the 2x4 straight upright really sturdily, but you can balance a 2x4 upright, then balance the bucket (upside down) on top of the 2x4. Twiddle and fudge until the 2x4 is exactly under under the spot where you want the hole, and straight upright, then push a nail, chisel or very sturdy knife-point onto the bucket's bottom right over the 2x4.

If everything is lined up straight, when you hammer on the nail or chisel you'll punch a hole instead of knocking the bucket and 2x4 sideways and driving the nail into your knee.

I like the melty methods better, myself!

The thicker the nail, the more heat it will hold.

If you can balance one or two nails on the gas burner, that's good, because you can let the jaws of the pliers cool while the nail(s) re-heat. Also, you can duck out of the way while the globs of plastic burn off the nail and emit clouds of noxious smoke (maybe you could scrape excess plastic off?)

If you have a lot of buckets, maybe keep a glass of water handy to cool the jaws of the pliers.

With a big enough nail, I could melt a "strip" of plastic maybe 1/8" to 1/4" wide, and long enough to have some hole on the bottom, and some hole up the side a little, to let air in even if the bucket sat flat and tight on some surface that did not let air into the bottom of the bucket.

On such a flat surface, I would prop the bucket up on chopsticks or slats or twigs, or some kind of grid or surface with gaps, to get some air-gap between the buckets and the surface.

Let the water out and the air in!

With tall buckets, and especially with fine or very water-retentive potting mixes, I make sure that air has several access points by putting several small holes 1/3rd of the way up, around the sides.
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Feb 16, 2016 2:02 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Wowser -- A huge "welcome to All Things Plants," Craig ( @CLeH )! (And thanks to Mike for pointing you in this direction!) Thumbs up Thumbs up Thumbs up
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
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Feb 18, 2016 6:52 AM CST
Name: Don Shirer
Westbrook, CT (Zone 6a)
Tomato Heads Vegetable Grower Peppers Seed Starter Region: Northeast US Avid Green Pages Reviewer
Craig, it's an honor to have the Doyen of Dwarves (the Master of Miniatures?) join our forum!

For the 2 or 3 tomato gardeners who do not recognize the name, his recent book Epic Tomatoes is a classic. It should be on your bookshelf. Tell your librarian too!

One of the many things I like about dwarf tomatoes are the quirky names their developers come up with. Who could not fall in love with a plant named Kookaburra Cackle or Wherokowhai?
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Feb 18, 2016 1:08 PM CST
Name: Paul Anguiano
Richland, WA (Zone 7a)
GW & DG: tropicalaria
Forum moderator Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages Garden Photography
Enjoys or suffers hot summers Tomato Heads Organic Gardener Greenhouse Native Plants and Wildflowers Herbs
Hey, Craig, great to have you here!

I've grown most of the released dwarf varieties (and a few of the unreleased). Definitely one of our favorite plant types. They're easy to start from seed, handle pots well, and don't shut down in the middle of our long season like the determinate pot types do. We've been selling the dwarf starts from our plant nursery for the last few years and customers are starting to recognize them.
Mid-Columbia Gardens
Geodesic Greenhouse
Years ago my mother used to say to me, she'd say, "In this world, Elwood, you must be" - she always called me Elwood - "In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me.


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Mar 9, 2016 4:48 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Kayleigh
(Zone 5a)
Butterflies Seed Starter Plays in the sandbox Lilies Irises Region: Indiana
Canning and food preservation Hummingbirder Daylilies Cut Flowers Cat Lover Vegetable Grower
RickCorey said:

>> and broke the bottom ...

It's awkward unless you can prop up the 2x4 straight upright really sturdily, but you can balance a 2x4 upright, then balance the bucket (upside down) on top of the 2x4. Twiddle and fudge until the 2x4 is exactly under under the spot where you want the hole, and straight upright, then push a nail, chisel or very sturdy knife-point onto the bucket's bottom right over the 2x4.

If everything is lined up straight, when you hammer on the nail or chisel you'll punch a hole instead of knocking the bucket and 2x4 sideways and driving the nail into your knee.

I like the melty methods better, myself!

The thicker the nail, the more heat it will hold.

If you can balance one or two nails on the gas burner, that's good, because you can let the jaws of the pliers cool while the nail(s) re-heat. Also, you can duck out of the way while the globs of plastic burn off the nail and emit clouds of noxious smoke (maybe you could scrape excess plastic off?)

If you have a lot of buckets, maybe keep a glass of water handy to cool the jaws of the pliers.

With a big enough nail, I could melt a "strip" of plastic maybe 1/8" to 1/4" wide, and long enough to have some hole on the bottom, and some hole up the side a little, to let air in even if the bucket sat flat and tight on some surface that did not let air into the bottom of the bucket.

On such a flat surface, I would prop the bucket up on chopsticks or slats or twigs, or some kind of grid or surface with gaps, to get some air-gap between the buckets and the surface.

Let the water out and the air in!

With tall buckets, and especially with fine or very water-retentive potting mixes, I make sure that air has several access points by putting several small holes 1/3rd of the way up, around the sides.


I kind of cheated and did a test today. I wanted to tell folks about it for punching bottom drain holes. Instead of a nail, I used a cheap dollar store phillips screw driver. Worked very well. That way I only had to deal with holding one item, and not worrying about dropping the nail out of the pliers since this is being done in my house and I sure didn't want to burn my vinyl floor. The smell can be very unpleasant though.

I sat my bucket on a large cooking (stock pot) type pan. This worked well also. Until I re-read, I forgot about burning a few holes in the sides. I don't think I'll mind laying it on its side to do that.
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Mar 9, 2016 7:31 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
Cool!

Some buckets (but maybe only small, cheap ones) have plastic that's thin or brittle, and punching a hole without a lot of support may cause those to crack.

But not when you;'re melting instead of punching! Maybe the cheap Philips screwdriver is the best tool for the job! I found the pliers-and-nails to require more coordination than I had. Now I have a craft wood-burning tool, like a soldering iron but cuter.
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Mar 9, 2016 10:46 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Is there some reason that no one seems to just use a drill to make holes? Shrug!
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
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Mar 10, 2016 6:18 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Kayleigh
(Zone 5a)
Butterflies Seed Starter Plays in the sandbox Lilies Irises Region: Indiana
Canning and food preservation Hummingbirder Daylilies Cut Flowers Cat Lover Vegetable Grower
I suppose I need a drill, but don't have one. I purchased a battery pack (lithium ion) drill, and the dag nab battery charger went bad and quick, but still out of the year warranty since I didn't use it for the first 6 or 8 months.
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Mar 10, 2016 7:28 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
Blinking Kayleigh, that's a bummer! We have gone through quite a few of the battery-operated drills over the years, they don't seem to last all that long under any circumstances. I have a corded drill that I rely on for everything within reach of an electrical outlet! (DH, on the other hand, loves the cordless types, but it's an endless litany of "oh, can't do that right now, the battery is dead..." )
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
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Mar 10, 2016 8:32 PM CST
Name: Carol
Santa Ana, ca
Sunset zone 22, USDA zone 10 A.
Bookworm Charter ATP Member Region: California Hummingbirder Orchids Plant Identifier
Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
Hilarious! I have both, but you have to plan a day ahead if you are going to use the cordless. Same with the cordless pole saw.
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Mar 11, 2016 5:54 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
I have an ancient plug-into-the-wall hand drill, and often use a 1/4" spade bit to drill plastic. But it's noisy!

And drilling can be flakey when the plastic is thin and brittle. I've cracked many cheap tubs.

I don't use "twist" drills because seeing the melted plastic gum them up "bothers me".

And maybe a drilled hole is more prone to future cracking then a melted hole, where the melted plastic often reinforces the edges.

Naah, I just like the wood-bunning tool better. A few times in the past a drill slipped and barely missed my knuckles. I know that I'm not getting better coordinated, so I use heat.
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Mar 11, 2016 6:04 PM CST
Name: Carol
Santa Ana, ca
Sunset zone 22, USDA zone 10 A.
Bookworm Charter ATP Member Region: California Hummingbirder Orchids Plant Identifier
Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
I think the wood burning tool would be best for this purpose, but we use what we have, and I would think the plastic would require replacement tips on the wood burning tool , if one was using it for many holes.
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Mar 11, 2016 6:09 PM CST
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
Frugal Gardener Garden Procrastinator I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest
Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
I haven't melted hundreds of pots yet, so just wiping the melted plastic off has been OK so far.

I would not try to use the gummy tips for craft purposes, though!
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Apr 11, 2016 7:05 PM CST
Name: Becky Panetta
Dacula, Georgia (Zone 8a)
Region: Georgia Butterflies Birds Hummingbirder Orchids Seed Starter
Keeper of Poultry Greenhouse Garden Photography
I am growing 6 varieties from the "project" this year. I got the seeds from Victory. Very good germination.

Adelaide Festival
Maralinga
Orange Cream
Rosella Crimson
Russian Swirl
Summertime Green

Anyone have experience with these?
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Apr 11, 2016 8:17 PM CST
Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Tomato Heads I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Roses Photo Contest Winner: 2016
Please be sure and report back what you think of them later in the season.
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Apr 11, 2016 8:22 PM CST
Name: Sandy B.
Ford River Twp, Michigan UP (Zone 4b)
(Zone 4b-maybe 5a)
Charter ATP Member Bee Lover Butterflies Birds I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Million Pollinator Garden Challenge
Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Greenhouse Region: United States of America Region: Michigan Enjoys or suffers cold winters
I haven't grown any of those, but they certainly have interesting names!
“Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." ~ Albert Schweitzer
C/F temp conversion
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Apr 12, 2016 8:20 AM CST
Name: Paul Fish
Brownville, Nebraska (Zone 5b)
Rosella Crimson and Summertime Green are two varieties I was able to help develop for commercial distribution. I particularly enjoy Rosella Crimson. While I took part in Summertime Green grow-outs I am not much of a green-when-ripe fan. You have to enjoy them to do right by them I think.

All on your list are nice tomatoes. Congrats to Craig and Patrina for herding us all into getting these ready for distribution. It has been great fun for the past ten years and rewarding to have tomato growers come up with lists from the project that they want to try.

We are still at it; I have another three varieties in the early stages of trial in this year's garden. Maybe those will hit Victory's list in a couple of years.

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