jimard8 said: ...
Also I dug out a compost bin type worm bin once , covered it with a wooden board cover , Had Giant Sphagnum growing over a foot tall for a while ,, looked like Ferns ,, was cool looking

Neat! I've also read about the butter-milk or yogurt slurry method as a way to paint lichens onto rocks and stone walls.

I'd be tempted to paint slogans onto cliffs that way, if I could fly.

RickCorey said:

I'd be tempted to paint slogans onto cliffs that way, if I could fly.

Here it is on carpet , grew in the sun some this cool season past

You two are hilarious! "Carpet" moss and graffiti.
I did use the buttermilk method to grow some moss on tufa planters several years ago. It's very happy there but then they are in the shade.
Growing sphagnum - is it just a naturally occurring moss in your area, Jim? Amazing. Mine comes from compacted fine soil.

Cindy The Smaller Sphagnum on the wall is . (shade also )
The Big looking fern things , the Bog type up North ) no ,, takes special sets and a very bog like almost dark conditions to grow it ,

I'll see if I can get any photos of my "volunteer" mosses.

They seem to like my asphalt driveway better than the unimproved clay "soil".

No joke. The unimproved clay and rocks used to be bare-naked. My driveway and roof are only free of moss after having been scraped or power-washed.

It's the Pacific North WET.

Rick Well their only trying to make sweet green bread flour for rolling daylily hot dog potato roots in ,,,Mr Gibbons or the Boy Scouts?

After the Sun went down . the warm wind started blowing wind are 40 to 50 mph and it is 60 degrees ,
First time in 40 yrs I have seen the temperature go up after sundown here

Rick Wait until they start getting slippery ,, smooth little grower , operators ,,

Cindy i was watching your other thread about nitrogen .for Tomato plants ,
a pair of Ideas for you , might be ,
Magnesium Hydroxide ,, Phillips milk of Magnesia , The trace element and regular milk from a Cow , changes to Chlorophyll and Nitrogen ,
This of course , leads to another which is Calcium ,
Water your plants with a mix of above as they grow over 6 or 8 inches and if their looking healthy , enough to cloud up the water should do ,

Half coffee Grounds ( I know and I talk about these also Cindy ) half potting starter mix ,, My special water play , and Wallah ,, A Sprout ,, AHA!!! I Got One ,,



Bamboo Sprout ,

Your other thread Cindy , About Too much is it could be locked in to the soil Earth ,,,Try a Dissolved Vitamin C and a piece of potato Mixed up to see if that will release the elements to your plants ,,Magnesium and Calcium have to Hydrate to release to your plants , Acidity Ionization has to occur for that to happen ,
Melon rinds I was told once are a source of Manganese ,, Some forms are more difficult to get because it is used in Explosives !!!

Wow! Thanks for all of the tips, Jim. I knew the calcium and magnesium are "locked up" and hoping some sulfated amendments will lower the pH just enough to start releasing them. Funny about the manganese and exposives - DH was asking me if I was making a bomb. I think I will have to start eating more melon!

Yeah Cindy , like in the Movies ,, "And They let me play with Explosives" really cool " ..
and Melons are good for you anyway ,,
So with all your Educational Discussion Talk about Vinegar , I am presuming it was to strong or did not work to release the trace functions or Main functions ,
Or maybe that Fall garden sulphur did not either
Seems listening to you that Hydrogen Peroxide , Vinegar, or Garden sulphur would work
Only other I have Done is add a little Tomato Ketchup to my watering ,
Guess I will have to read more ,,

Above the 50 - 50 coffee mix to a 5.6 ph . with Vinegar ,, The Vinegar dissapates quickly in outdoor use ,
It has to be presoaked for a while . it stays a little longer ,, but ,, but ,,, yeah still that ,,,

I've heard a lot about vinegar, mostly for getting rid of weeds but am a little nervous to try it. And I have the impression that hydrogen peroxide is such an ephemeral thing - the effects dissapate quickly? I have added coffee grounds to the bed I had tested but it's still registering at 7.1 pH. Garden sulfur would probably work to free up the Ca and Mg but not sure how much it would help with the other elemental shortages. I am using Borax to bring up the boron levels.

That Cindy is a Very Alkaline PH , must be old Lake river salt ?
I would keep trying Vitamin C and Fruit Juice . That's me though . Mashing a few Apples to liquid least expensive ,

Calcium and magnesium availability is reduced at lower pH's rather than increased, while micronutrient availability is increased as the pH decreases. Coffee grounds vary in their pH but aren't necessarily significantly acidic, or even acidic at all.

I've used vinegar at the rate of 1 teaspoon to 1 litre of water to correct micronutrient deficiencies but it does have to be repeated regularly, whereas sulphur lasts longer. The vinegar used as a herbicide is stronger. Do be careful with Borax because boron is toxic to plants in higher amounts - it can be used as a herbicide to kill "creeping Charlie" aka "ground ivy" which is one of the plants susceptible to boron toxicity. Boron, being a micronutrient, becomes more available at lower pH's (the micronutrient that is an exception to this is molybdenum).

FWIW, not all sulfates have an effect on pH, for example Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) doesn't.

Edited to add, pH 7 is neutral - there's a chart showing nutrient availability as affected by soil pH in Figure 1 on this page from U of Vermont

http://www.uvm.edu/~fruit/?Pag...

Hello sooby , about the PH , About this region though , A lot of ancient salt in the earth , Has a very Alkaline effect on the plant outdoors in the garden ,
also , that Boron can be a mean to plants ,,

OK, but pH 7 is still neutral, whatever the cause, 7.1 just slightly alkaline. If it's high salt it would change the kind of calcium you would need to add if Ca was deficient, like gypsum (calcium sulfate) because it supplies calcium without raising the pH.

Thanks for posting that link, Sooby. Borax application will be 1/2# per 1000 sq ft.

This article from Iowa State Extension is about using Borax as a herbicide for ground ivy - they're using 10 oz. per 1000 sq. ft.

http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm...

Your mention of Borax will have me going back to double check the application rate for sure. I do have ground ivy that I might try the Borax on. I had pulled most of it years ago but have gotten very lazy about weeding in the wilder areas of the yard.

Not relevant to application and learning here ,( that I am doing ) But I gave up on the Ground Ivy leaving it for early bees and Butterflies ,
I have some more reading to do about the Borax (relevant to fruit trees )
Both . for discussing this ..