Plant ID forum: Is this one of the Agave parryi?

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Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
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HamiltonSquare
Feb 1, 2016 8:22 PM CST
The ID could not be established for certain but may be either in the A. parryi complex or A. flexispina. Feb. 2, 2016.

If it is do any of you know which one and how are they distinquished?

Thumb of 2016-02-02/HamiltonSquare/12061b

Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
[Last edited by HamiltonSquare - Feb 2, 2016 5:31 PM (+)]
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Name: Thijs van Soest
Mesa, AZ (Zone 9b)
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mcvansoest
Feb 1, 2016 8:55 PM CST
Hmmmm. Difficult one. It could be, but my first sense is no.... because: too few leaves at the size of the plant and too long with not quite the right shape and posture... However, I am by no means an expert, so my impression could be completely wrong, especially taking growing conditions into account - those appear to be relatively lush compared to A. parryi's normal habitat.
Also I do not immediately come up with a suitable alternative (my sense was A. Celsii 'Nova', but that one does not quite fit - leave shape and posture a better fit, but teeth quite a bit off)

This is one site to check out, it may help, but it may also confuse, lots of habitat and cultivation shots of the A. parryi family of plants though: http://www.agaveville.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=51
I linked to Agave parryi v. parryi, but they have separate entries for the other plants and photo documentation for just about every other Agave. Some people who have seen a lot of Agaves frequent that site.


Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
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HamiltonSquare
Feb 1, 2016 9:16 PM CST
I think this does get quite a bit of shade and lots of winter rain in a normal year. It is in a large raised bed. I also thought the leaves were to long and not round enough but couldn't find any alternative. Thanks for the link. Nice one. I tip my hat to you.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
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HamiltonSquare
Feb 1, 2016 9:20 PM CST
I think this does get quite a bit of shade and lots of winter rain in a normal year. It is in a large raised bed. I also thought the leaves were to long and not round enough but couldn't find any alternative. Thanks for the link. Nice one. I tip my hat to you. Here is another in the same location.
Thumb of 2016-02-02/HamiltonSquare/934121

Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
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JRsbugs
Feb 1, 2016 9:53 PM CST
Agave applanata is similar, maybe more grey ..

http://www.agavaceae.com/botanik/pflanzen/botspezies_seite_e...

Name: Thijs van Soest
Mesa, AZ (Zone 9b)
Adeniums Enjoys or suffers hot summers Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Hummingbirder Xeriscape
Region: Arizona Region: Southwest Gardening Seed Starter Plant and/or Seed Trader Cat Lover Dog Lover
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mcvansoest
Feb 1, 2016 10:18 PM CST
A good possibility, Janet! But I again get stuck on the leaf posture, Parryis and also Applanata rarely have that very obvious bend at the base of the leaves and the narrowing towards the base of the leave is not something I have seen in these plants. Still growing conditions could come into play. However at that size A. applanata tends to still have a very pronounced terminal spine, with coloring extending along the leaf edges quite a bit.

Despite the NOID it is a very nice plant, any chance of a more detailed picture?
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
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HamiltonSquare
Feb 1, 2016 11:47 PM CST
Yes on the more detailed photos. Give me a day or two. None are in bloom. The leaf curvature is very pronounced. Not something I'd taken into account. I tip my hat to you.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
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HamiltonSquare
Feb 2, 2016 12:01 PM CST
Here are a few more photos some with younger plants in clumps. The larger ones have no pups. All the mature plants have a two foot/.6 meters radius. I see there is color extending from the spine down the leaf edge.
Thumb of 2016-02-02/HamiltonSquare/87d2d2
Thumb of 2016-02-02/HamiltonSquare/4515e8
Thumb of 2016-02-02/HamiltonSquare/c5f8f7
Thumb of 2016-02-02/HamiltonSquare/651264

Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
[Last edited by HamiltonSquare - Feb 2, 2016 12:09 PM (+)]
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Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
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JRsbugs
Feb 2, 2016 12:21 PM CST
Compare the last pic with the 'adult' photo on the agavaceae site of Agave applanata .. there's several photos at different stages which look very different.

http://www.agavaceae.com/botanik/pflanzen/bilder/gnr110/bild...
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
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JRsbugs
Feb 2, 2016 12:37 PM CST
Agave flexispina?

Palmbob has posted several Agaves from Huntington, look at the 6th photo (second one of group 2). Look at comments, in particular from agavemonger.

http://www.xericworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1421

http://kaktusyfabian.webnode.sk/products/agave-flexispina-tr...

Name: Thijs van Soest
Mesa, AZ (Zone 9b)
Adeniums Enjoys or suffers hot summers Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Hummingbirder Xeriscape
Region: Arizona Region: Southwest Gardening Seed Starter Plant and/or Seed Trader Cat Lover Dog Lover
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mcvansoest
Feb 2, 2016 3:10 PM CST
OK, these new pictures suggest A. parryi to me a lot more than the previous two pictures. Still not completely 'classic' parryi looks, but I have seen parryis that look like that.

Except for the 3rd picture that is an imposter.... possibly Agave colorata.
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
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HamiltonSquare
Feb 2, 2016 3:23 PM CST
I've been slogging through those same areas. I would have thought it would be much easier for such a distinctive looking agave but not so.... I did find a link to one of these in flower. A. flexispina looks close. Flexible spine? The tip perhaps?

http://www.360cities.net/image/capitol-park-cactus-garden-ca...
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
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HamiltonSquare
Feb 2, 2016 3:26 PM CST
Ah cross posted Thijs. Thanks. I've looked at too many Agave today.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Name: Thijs van Soest
Mesa, AZ (Zone 9b)
Adeniums Enjoys or suffers hot summers Cactus and Succulents Container Gardener Hummingbirder Xeriscape
Region: Arizona Region: Southwest Gardening Seed Starter Plant and/or Seed Trader Cat Lover Dog Lover
Image
mcvansoest
Feb 2, 2016 3:35 PM CST
Could be flexispina too... sorry... I looked at that and discounted it for the original pictures because of how the leave is shaped towards its terminal spine, but the newer pictures might be even better for A. flexispina than A. parryi...

The fun or frustration with identifying plants from pictures....
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
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JRsbugs
Feb 2, 2016 3:46 PM CST
Agave parryi has flat tips to the leaves as far as I know, or can see.

The comments I pointed to above from agavemonger:

I believe your "21309" photograph is probably Agave flexispina. Note the "flexed" spines and the recurved leaftips


This agave looks to have recurved leaf tips, and 'flexed' spines.

Compare the photos on the second link I put above, scroll down to see all the photos. Third one from the link.

Thumb of 2016-02-02/JRsbugs/8e5846 Thumb of 2016-02-02/JRsbugs/ef40b7 Thumb of 2016-02-02/JRsbugs/0cfbb1

Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
Image
HamiltonSquare
Feb 2, 2016 4:30 PM CST
On agave the leaf tip is the spine and it's teeth along the leaf margin. So the comment was somewhat confusing to me...but the teeth do seem to be similarly curved on these and the A. flexispina.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Feb 2, 2016 5:39 PM CST
Sorry for the confusion, I meant the 'apex' of the leaf to which the spine is attached. Most are quite flat, some are a little reflexed but not significantly so.

Maybe it's better put that A. flexispina leaves are quite 'cupped' at the apex of the leaf immediately below the spine.

A. parryi has leaves more like a paddle.

Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
Image
HamiltonSquare
Feb 2, 2016 6:39 PM CST
Ah so. Yes I see that there is a little cup below the spine. I think that narrows it down to one. I try to do a little more comparative anatomy and looking for more web confirmation. Thank you, both, sooo much. I tip my hat to you.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
Image
HamiltonSquare
Feb 2, 2016 7:02 PM CST
Just came across this?
Agave (Agave parryi var. parryi ssp. flexispina) Now lumped under parryi var. parryi. Very close also in this photo from palmbob.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/420427/#b
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
Image
JRsbugs
Feb 2, 2016 7:22 PM CST
I guess it depends on who says what, different taxonomists have different views.

The Plant List gives Agave flexispina as an accepted name, oddly enough there are no synonyms given. It also has 3 stars, many of species don't have the full star confidence which makes it sound certain.

http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-293818

http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do;jsessionid=F40...

Century Plant (Agave flexispina)

Notice that palmbob's statement was made in 2004.

[Last edited by JRsbugs - Feb 2, 2016 7:28 PM (+)]
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