Roses forum: endangered roses

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Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Raises cows Plant Identifier
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needrain
Mar 13, 2016 6:48 AM CST
@HamiltonSquare
The video is worth seeing at the least. I think this is shortsighted on the part of the powers that be. The roses themselves are probably attracting as many visitors as the cemetery. This article was put on FB by a friend from Australia who is active in the preservation of old roses. That group certainly travels. All to often I've found too many people want what's above ground as dead as what is underneath when it comes to cemeteries. Anyway, you folks have done a good job, Leslieray, and you even have a mention Smiling . Did you make the video? Here's the link:
http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article65582972.html
Donald
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
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HamiltonSquare
Mar 13, 2016 3:28 PM CST
Hey Donald! The video was shot by our local paper the Sacramento Bee. Debbie Arrington did a few interview, including me. I had no idea they did a video until this morning. The rose garden is'nt very impressive this time of year but it's full glory is a week or two away. I think what the volunteers have done over the decades, revitalizing the cemetery, bringing the public in for educational tours on various subject, and the plantings enhance this place and are a destination themselves. The city wants the gardens but the guidelines have no nuance. It is black and white. The structures and supports for this world class collection of roses should be allowed. The city could do this but will not give credit to what they have here. Perhaps the article will help them see things in a better light. The safety issue came out of the blue and to me as a big red flag. Safety issues can be used to rationalize any decision. In this case even if there was no vegetation at all there are many places to hide. It's an overreach to blame the roses. Wherever we go safety is an issue we mitigate that with practical caution. Most of the photos I post are from the cemetery with some showing plants that drape over the edge of raised plots or snug up to a flat marker. That is no longer allowed. Twelve inches from all headstones/ monuments and visability from any direction. It goes on. No shading for more than half a day. It's all to keep the microclimate near all the hardscape as humidity free as possible to retard the growth of moss/lichen etc. I get it, I really do. Preservation is not only about the monuments it also includes the historic environment which includes the view. The city would like it to be more open with the long sitelines such much of the cemetery still has but exceptions can be made. They are making the rules as they see it. They have the authority to decide. I also know that this place is more relevant to the living with the beauty of the plantings. It will be a great loss to the public if they don't show some flexibility. Those are my thoughts. Any feedback would be welcomed. I tip my hat to you.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Mar 13, 2016 4:50 PM CST
I certainly hope they make an exception for that glorious Lady Banks.
Porkpal
Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Raises cows Plant Identifier
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needrain
Mar 13, 2016 4:58 PM CST
A lady from Scotland responded to the article posted by the Australian on FB and all she said was "How silly". The UK knows a thing or two about preserving historical monuments, I think. I tend to agree. A cemetery itself will die with the last person buried in it unless there are living people tending it. That's really not a static undertaking. I'd tend to think any changes should come very gradually in the future with minor corrections to what is there presently. That could happen quite naturally as any gardener can tell you. The proposals sound too drastic and unnecessary to me. It appears to be a beautiful place with its own character and it sounds like they'd prefer it to look like thousands of other burial grounds. IMO.
Donald
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Mar 13, 2016 6:17 PM CST

Moderator

The article certainly is compelling. I hope it leads to a grass-roots movement in support of the roses.
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
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HamiltonSquare
Mar 13, 2016 6:21 PM CST
I agree with how silly. The garden is ever changing even season to season but you only see that if your looking. On April 2 the rose garden will be recognizing its 'Award of Garden Excellence' from the World Federation of Rose Societies. Very prestigious and well deserved. The city seems willing to undue that too. They state that they would allow the climbers to be moved to the fence line and a few will be but the the rest of the fence line is planted with very large evergreens. In other words, too much shade to make it practical. It is not inconceivable that some smart city manager or mayor from some nearby city would be happy to have a world class rose garden, collection intact, in there city and steel them away. I hope that does not happen. My hope is that the roses out live us all right where they are as a living repository of there genetic potential in the future and that there are people to care for them as knowledgeable and dedicated as those they have now.


Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Mar 14, 2016 11:27 PM CST
How totally heartbreaking ! I know many of the people who were involved in designing and creating this garden and many of the volunteers who have worked HARD to create something unique and which preserves roses that would have been lost forever.

Many of the roses growing in this garden came from abandoned cemeteries, abandoned homesteads, mine headquarters and ghost towns located throughout the gold country. They may not exactly represents Sacramento's history, but they are representative of roses in the State of California during the era of the cemetery.

Administrators ! How can they make decisions about a treasure trove like this without even a bit of understanding about the plant's needs ?

"Save the headstones" ... that is totally disgusting to me. The headstones may have some historical significance, but it is the glory of the gardens in the cemetery that brings people from around the world to visit.

We lost many of the treasures that only grew in Descanso's gardens due to an administrator's ignorance. To see it happening again is truly heartbreaking.

Safety issues and vagrants. Good grief, even in my small town in the mountains we had to take our parks back from the vagrants. Are we supposed to give up beauty simply because of vagrants ? Safety issues ... what safety issues ? Has a vampire rose captured a visitor and held him or her hostage ?

Sorry for the rant, but this kind of thinking has destroyed more than it has preserved.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
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HamiltonSquare
Mar 15, 2016 12:12 AM CST
I sooo agree with you Lyn. It is a heartbreaker. Talking to the press may help but I sure got the cold shoulder today. We had to try though. Folks should know what the city gets up to. I spent the day ripping out draping Rosemary and large Lavenders that have grown over the edge. Lots more to do along with spring planting and weeding. Nothing like trying to move large roses though. I did one. It was a huge 'Polar Star' that split in half and I kept one half and it's growing but who knows how it will do. With the rose garden there is the risk of killing them in the process so there asking for more time to propagate them and then to make sure those take before they move the roses. That process will go well beyond the deadline they were given. Dec. 1. As for safety, it is an often used way to force an issue. It trumps everything...bring a buddy or two is what we do and what I recommend to other volunteers. I'm out here alone much of the time but I look mean and don't get bothered and usually have a formidable looking tool in hand. There are, on occasion, strange ones that show up but that happens everywhere. We all need to be cautious in our daily lives. I'd rather have the beauty of a well planted environment everywhere I go. It's always an improvement to me. Sighing!
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Raises cows Plant Identifier
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needrain
Mar 15, 2016 5:50 AM CST
The video and article has now appeared from an Italian source on FB. It is circulating widely through gardening circles in Europe and Australia apparently. The Italian connection gave an address to send letters of protest. The antique rose folks seem to be well organized internationally.
Donald
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
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HamiltonSquare
Mar 15, 2016 9:24 AM CST
The rose garden has had many international visitors. Hope it makes a difference. Thumbs up
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Mar 15, 2016 10:03 AM CST
Do they keep a visitors' book to document its popularity?
Porkpal
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
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HamiltonSquare
Mar 15, 2016 5:59 PM CST
They don't keep track of the number of visitors. They have a guest sign in book in an office but many people never go in it and the hours are irregular at best. It isn't a huge number but it could be. I'll be giving many what's blooming tours free to the public on Saturdays throughout the year in Hamilton Square Garden and a few private tours to garden clubs and master gardener groups. The rose garden and native plants are included in some of the private tours. April 9th is our big PR day where all the gardens are staffed for tours and info on how to participate with us. The rose garden propagates their roses to sell to the public that day. They will publish the catologe for that any time now. Last year they had about five hundred for sale. They line up at the gate some years. All this to fund more restoration and beautification within the cemetery. It's a considerable amount too. The roses are propagated at a local community colleges greenhouses. It is all a win win for the community and the city. All done by volunteers. I do go on don't I. The answer is yes and no porkpal. Rolling my eyes.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
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HamiltonSquare
Mar 15, 2016 9:15 PM CST
I was just alerted that there has been some movement on the issue. A new story in the paper. Here's link. See what you think. I tip my hat to you.
http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article66297662.html
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Raises cows Plant Identifier
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needrain
Mar 15, 2016 9:47 PM CST
I'm not too optimistic, but sounds like there is some hope that less draconian measures will be taken. I think some international input may have helped.
Donald
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Mar 15, 2016 9:49 PM CST
That sounds better...
Porkpal
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Mar 15, 2016 10:09 PM CST
If they are moving the arches which play a big role in creating the ambiance of the garden and roses, I think this is going to end up being something less than what it was.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
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HamiltonSquare
Mar 15, 2016 10:13 PM CST
The moving the arches should have been removing. They said previously that they are not historical. Now they say they may fall on someone. Moving would mean of the property. It did quite make sense. I'm not too optimistic either. One can hope. Thumbs up
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
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CindiKS
Mar 17, 2016 6:50 AM CST
Leslieray,
Is the April 9 sale just local, or will you sell online or ship?
I would love to grow some of these old roses in Kansas.
Our local Rose Society now has a link on the facebook page telling members about the situation. We have several members who are good at starting cuttings, but I'm the only one with space to grow some of the larger roses. I doubt I could talk any of them into traveling to California just to go to the sale. We can fly to San Diego from here for $200, but Sacramento is several hundred more!
Sticking tongue out
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
Foliage Fan Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Bee Lover Hummingbirder Butterflies
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HamiltonSquare
Mar 17, 2016 10:13 AM CST
Hi Cindi. The sale is just local and it's quite a stampede at the cemetery gate. It's done in conjunction with our Open Garden Day. Our three major garden are staffed with their respective volunteers for tours and questions. The 'situation' caused quite a stir. Round one went to the roses. What's really going to happen remains to be seen. People from around the world response with emails etc. to many city offices and to the press. We were so great full for the massive respond. The rose curator is on face book. Her name is Anita Clevenger. I tip my hat to you.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Name: Donald
Eastland county, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Enjoys or suffers hot summers Raises cows Plant Identifier
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needrain
Mar 17, 2016 12:52 PM CST
I hope that at the least the timeline was extended. Enough to ensure that no varieties will be lost to haste. But your right about what will really happen when the furor dies down. Exercising power is like a severe addiction for some people and they tend to not be very flexible because in their view flexibility diminishes the power. It would be well for those in charge of the roses to try and take advantage of any extra time and try to have a good backup for the vulnerable varieties.
Donald

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