Roses forum: Please Help me with our roses. Begging you to watch

Page 1 of 8 • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Views: 3027, Replies: 155 » Jump to the end
Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
Image
bhart90
Mar 18, 2016 4:08 PM CST
Three Old English, Once Bloomers Roses.
Tropicana, Abraham Lincoln, Peach, yadi ya, names might not be perfect, but we do know they are the Once Bloomers.
I'm in Mid Michigan.

My knowledge from my mother, is that they have only bloomed twice since they have been in 20 years.

Never been pruned at all! And the medium is, well, essentially all broken down wood chips into dirt as you can tell. I will in time

Before I do ANYTHING, I wanted to hear from experts, or anyone that has solid advice, what do I do?



Thumb of 2016-03-18/bhart90/4cd795


Thumb of 2016-03-18/bhart90/ad46c8


Thumb of 2016-03-18/bhart90/41db24


Thumb of 2016-03-18/bhart90/dd9ec4

Brenden
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
zuzu
Mar 18, 2016 8:19 PM CST

Moderator

Brenden, I'm not sure what the full name of "Peach" might be, but you probably mean Mister Lincoln when you say "Abraham Lincoln." Mister Lincoln and Tropicana are not old English roses and they aren't once-bloomers. They're hybrid teas, which should bloom more than once each year, even in Michigan. Unless they're planted in deep shade, never get watered, and are growing in terrible soil with no fertilizer, they should have bloomed at least 30-40 times in the last 20 years.

I am concerned when I look at your photos. There's so much dead wood in those pictures. In fact, I'm not sure I see any live wood. Do you give them any protection in winter? Mister Lincoln is hardy to zone 5, but Tropicana is hardy only to zone 7 and might need extra protection to stay alive in winter.
Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
Image
bhart90
Mar 19, 2016 6:02 AM CST
No sort of cover, and all 3 are alive trust me, the pictures don't do them justice. She might have the names wrong I suppose but was adamant on them being that type though.

Seriously, I will do what ever you say to do.
Brenden
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Mar 19, 2016 6:45 AM CST
I am a minimalist in the subject of rose care, but I would just cut out the definitely dead canes (scratch the bark to be sure) and otherwise leave them alone, and see how they do as spring wakes them up.
Porkpal
Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
Image
bhart90
Mar 19, 2016 7:26 AM CST
You wouldn't replant?
Brenden
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Mar 19, 2016 8:01 AM CST
Well, they do not seem happy where they are now if they are rarely blooming, so maybe they would appreciate being transplanted to a sunnier spot with good soil. However, they are also so unhealthy looking that they might not survive the move. Now, while they are still dormant, would be the best time for relocating them if that is what you would like to do. Roses are remarkably tough. Good luck!
Porkpal
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Plant and/or Seed Trader Permaculture Roses Ponds Peonies
Lilies Irises Daylilies Dog Lover Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level
Image
CindiKS
Mar 19, 2016 10:07 AM CST
Were the blooms red? What I see there is plants that die back to the ground each year, which explains all the dead wood. Each year, they start over again with new canes. I suspect this was originally a grafted rose and now you have root stock growing. The rootstock is most likely Dr. Huey, which is a once bloomer that resembles some old red roses. The originally purchased rose is long dead. That's my guess. If you dig down a bit and see a big knot, that's the graft. If there's no knot, you have an own-root rose, and it could be an antique, or what you are calling Old English. But if it was planted 20 years ago, that's not likely, unless it was moved there from another garden. So many possibilities!
If you decide to dig it out and move it to a sunnier location with no tree roots nearby, I'll warn you that digging it is a horrible chore. The roots will be deep and huge. We're talking back breaking, all-day chore to dig and replant a rose that might not survive the move.
What I would do is, as others said, cut out all the dead wood first. A cane that shows some green is a live cane, and I do see a few of them in your photos. Cut a few inches off the live canes also to stimulate a bit of growth. Do this when the forsythias in your area start to bloom. I would buy a few bags of compost and spread them around the roses, and water it well. In April, I would start fertilizing. Give it fish emulsion, miracle grow, alfalfa pellets, milorganite, superthrive. Keep watering regularly. With this treatment, any rose should be blooming by June.
Once they bloom, post a photo of the blossoms and leaves, and everyone can take a shot at guessing the name and type of rose. It would be wonderful if it turns out to be an OGR....Old Garden Rose, or antique. Good luck! Lovey dubby
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
Image
bhart90
Mar 19, 2016 10:31 AM CST

Thumb of 2016-03-19/bhart90/26f380


Thumb of 2016-03-19/bhart90/a41498


As of August last year hope that helps.
Brenden
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
porkpal
Mar 19, 2016 11:05 AM CST
Those look small but healthy. Cindi's suggestions ought to improve them a lot. I don't think they are root stock; the top one definitely is not Dr Huey, but seems to be two different roses growing together? _ or, possibly a combination of a grafted rose and its root stock? I am looking forward to seeing pictures of their progress.
Porkpal
Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
Image
bhart90
Mar 19, 2016 4:32 PM CST
Good lord I need a whole day off for this I don't know if you can tell from the picture, but there is a tree growing rate from the middle as well so this is definitely going to be a whole day job! So the next day I have off is Friday, if you guys think I can wait till then to replant I will, also check out the other picture I was looking around the plant identifying where the tree was at, and I lifted up a roast them that was buried I don't know if you can tell but it has roots about 4 to 5 inches long I've never heard that happening with a rose bush so because I don't have any extensive amount of time to do anything I pretty much just reread it again that's amazing.
Thumb of 2016-03-19/bhart90/0b5944


Thumb of 2016-03-19/bhart90/bac49b

Brenden
Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
Image
bhart90
Mar 19, 2016 4:35 PM CST
What also makes this a bit confusing is I have green growth coming from the base of a dead looking stem, what the hell do I so with that
Brenden
Name: Lee-Roy
Bilzen, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Irises Lilies Hostas Ferns Composter Region: Belgium
Image
Arico
Mar 19, 2016 4:41 PM CST
I'm no expert on roses; hell I only pruned my first roses last year and I got two blooming sessions that season ^^ What I know regaring pruning roses is: first cut all that's dead, diseased/dying and crossing. Then, in you mind's eye visualize how you want the rose bush to look like (which branches to keep) and cut back to an outwards facing bud to about knee height.

My result first try:

Thumb of 2016-03-19/Arico/6b24d7

Pruned again last week keeping just a few stems:


Thumb of 2016-03-19/Arico/f57de3

[Last edited by Arico - Mar 19, 2016 4:43 PM (+)]
Give a thumbs up | Quote | Post #1085234 (12)
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
zuzu
Mar 19, 2016 4:42 PM CST

Moderator

Cut off the dead part down to the green.

Rose stems do root when they touch the ground, so what you're seeing is quite natural.

I'm sure you and the roses can wait until Friday. Smiling
Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
Image
bhart90
Mar 19, 2016 4:49 PM CST
Ty, for the pictures of that bush, I got e ought sense to prune to ensure things grow outward, thanks. Zuzu, I'll have some stems thst start off dead at the base, and if I wiggled enough far enough, it could snap, and as it goes up, it turns purple, then bright green at the tip, understand?
Brenden
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
zuzu
Mar 19, 2016 4:59 PM CST

Moderator

Oh, you said you had green growth at the base of a dead-looking cane, so I misunderstood. I guess you should wait and see what happens with the ones that show the opposite. If it's purple in the middle and green on top, the cane probably isn't really dead at the base, although it's also possible that the "death" is traveling upward and hasn't reached the top yet. Just leave it alone and see what happens.
Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
Image
bhart90
Mar 19, 2016 5:07 PM CST
Okie dokie, you know I really wanna see the look on my mother's face to see them bloom once again, and they ARE at least 20 years old, they just took beatings every year from us walking and breaking them. Now... I will be redoing the entire front garden up there including the roses. The medium is now, the wood chips that have never been changed, leading to, well whatever it is now, and a weed barrier under a bit further. So knowing that.... should I utilize the current "soil"? Or at least use SOME of it? Or start completely new
Thumb of 2016-03-19/bhart90/867d73

Brenden
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
zuzu
Mar 19, 2016 5:20 PM CST

Moderator

It depends on the type of soil you have naturally. You don't want to use a lot of commercial potting soil in the planting hole if your own garden soil has a lot more clay or rock in it. Rose roots don't like to travel from one type of soil to another, so resist the urge to create a new bed with lots of potting soil unless your own soil below the layer of potting soil is sandy loam.

After you move them, please resist the urge to fertilize them. Newly planted roots are fragile and will be burned up by chemical fertilizer. Don't use any commercial fertilizer until the roses are thriving in the new spot. You can use various types of organic, non-chemical matter to perk up your roses, however: a handful of Epsom salts, alfalfa pellets, bone meal, etc. I have always planted my roses on top of a banana peel and an egg. I don't know how much it has helped them, but it certainly hasn't hurt them.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
Image
zuzu
Mar 19, 2016 5:22 PM CST

Moderator

I forgot the main thing: After you plant them in the new spot, keep them well watered. Don't let the roots dry out. Rain is the best thing for them, but if there's no rain, water them by hand daily for at least a week.

That piece of stem that grew roots can be planted as a separate rose if you cut it off from the main rose.
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Plant and/or Seed Trader Permaculture Roses Ponds Peonies
Lilies Irises Daylilies Dog Lover Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level
Image
CindiKS
Mar 19, 2016 7:37 PM CST
Ooh, get that weed barrier out of there. Then get all the vines, the ivy, the Virginia creeper or grape out of there. It's choking the rose.
My suggestions on feeding were if you were leaving it in place....thank you Zuzu for clarifying the instructions. A newly moved rose is a tender baby, and in your zone will need protection from wind and cold in addition to regular irrigation all summer long.
Soil amendments such as compost go on top the soil, not mixed in, whether you leave the rose in place or plant in a new hole. I have a few books that still tell people to amend the soil, but roses are different from perennials. They are more like trees in that their roots will reach farther if soil is not amended in just the planting hole. Just as Zuzu says, people who grow in sand have different instructions. Your soil looks like a loamy type, though.
If this is an old garden rose, after you get the dead pruned out, and get the canes cut back to green areas, don't prune any more. Put it in a spot where it can grow as large as it's supposed to. Pruning, or stepping on canes and breaking the ends off may have caused that years' blooms to be lost if it's a once bloomer. In other words, do not prune this rose the way the books tell you to prune a hybrid tea rose. Let it grow a year or so, and then you should know for sure what type rose it is, and then know which way to prune.
Sorry, too much information, I know! What you are undertaking IS a challenge. Remodeling is much more difficult than building new. Whistling
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
Image
bhart90
Mar 19, 2016 8:05 PM CST
God bless you two.... if try flower and for whatever reason they re a new species (which I'm obviously lying out of my ass) they will be named Zuzu and cindiKS.
I'm out of questions, checkmate...

I can't wait to start, if only I didn't have to slave away at a 9-5.

Thank you guys!.

Oh, and one of the roses, looks like my ma put 3 in one spot. Unless they se divide, which I don't THINK happens...?or does it.

And it might have a little sand I it, I'll ask my father tomorrow.
Brenden

Page 1 of 8 • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

« Garden.org Homepage
« Back to the top
« Forums List
« Roses forum
You must first create a username and login before you can reply to this thread.

Today's site banner is by Baja_Costero and is called "Agave"