Wildflowers forum: What do you think? It makes no sense to me!

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Name: Linda
Medina Co., TX (Zone 8a)
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LindaTX8
Mar 29, 2016 4:02 PM CST
The thread "Very confusing synonym?" in Plant Database forum
I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority. E. B.White
Integrity can never be taken. It can only be given, and I wasn't going to give it up to these people. Gary Mowad
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
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HamiltonSquare
Mar 30, 2016 10:08 PM CST
I started a thread in the plant ID forum titled Maltese Star Thistle (Centaurea melitensis) because there were your photos of a blue flower and also from Joy. The rest were from Kelli of the yellow invasive one. I can only guess how yours and joys got in there..... at the time there was no separate entry for C. americana because that name was listed as a synonym for C. melitensis on whatever source they were using at the time and that is still unresolved across all the sources used. Janet did find an old reference with a color plate 51 labeled Plectocephalus americanus which may also be the name or just a synonym of yours and Joy's flower. Evan has now made an entry for C. americana, your flower, even though the name is not resolved. It is a temporary fix but better than having photos of two species in one entry. I hope this was a little less confusing. I think I read it all through with the links a dozen times or so myself. I hope I have it right now! Crossing Fingers!
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Name: Linda
Medina Co., TX (Zone 8a)
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LindaTX8
Mar 30, 2016 10:57 PM CST
All of my pics were definitely posted under C. americana in the first place! I was so confused when I was notified, because I don't remember the pics being moved from that name in the first place. I hate that C. melitensis...so invasive it's almost impossible to get rid of them once they pop up. I've been pulling them up by the road where I live for years! So far (cross fingers), it hasn't got to my yard!
http://texasinvasives.org/plant_database/detail.php?symbol=C...
I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority. E. B.White
Integrity can never be taken. It can only be given, and I wasn't going to give it up to these people. Gary Mowad
[Last edited by LindaTX8 - Mar 30, 2016 10:59 PM (+)]
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Name: josephine
Arlington, Texas (Zone 8a)
Hi Everybody!! Let us talk native.
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frostweed
Mar 31, 2016 7:00 AM CST

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Well, it surely seems very strange that those two could be lumped together, they don't look the same at all. Glare
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Name: Jolana
Mountain City, Tx (Zone 8b)
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froggardener
Mar 31, 2016 10:32 AM CST
I agree
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Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
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HamiltonSquare
Apr 1, 2016 10:04 AM CST
It's all about an issue with synonyms. It happened with Salvia lanceolata. I was about to upload my photos but the entry it was going to had it as a synonym AND there was one photo of the proper plant, a Texas native with blue flowers and the rest were of those the same as mine. I had to wait quite some time before catolouge of life cleared that up and S. lanceolata had its own entry in the DB. As for the Star Thistle....it is a viscous thing. It's from here in the valley and all the way along the highways all over and up to at least three thousand feet into the foothills. A real threat to natives due to its thickness. Now your flower has its own space, in the DB for now. I tip my hat to you.
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Name: Linda
Medina Co., TX (Zone 8a)
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LindaTX8
Apr 1, 2016 3:38 PM CST
Confusion abounds. Winecups, for instance. One of my pics somehow ended up listed under Callirhoe pedata, which I didn't know anything about. Someone contacted me wanting to know about C. pedata. At one point C. pedata was listed in my field guide as a synonym of C. digitata. But that book is very old, as far as its first year it was published. Then there's C. leiocarpa, which got mixed into this confusion somehow. Now I don't even know the difference between the 3 species...or IF there is 3 species or just 2 species. The internet seems to be adding to the confusion in species!
I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority. E. B.White
Integrity can never be taken. It can only be given, and I wasn't going to give it up to these people. Gary Mowad
Name: Linda
Medina Co., TX (Zone 8a)
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LindaTX8
Apr 1, 2016 3:38 PM CST
Confusion abounds. Winecups, for instance. One of my pics somehow ended up listed under Callirhoe pedata, which I didn't know anything about. Someone contacted me wanting to know about C. pedata. At one point C. pedata was listed in my field guide as a synonym of C. digitata. But that book is very old, as far as its first year it was published. Then there's C. leiocarpa, which got mixed into this confusion somehow. Now I don't even know the difference between the 3 species...or IF there is 3 species or just 2 species. The internet seems to be adding to the confusion in species!
I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority. E. B.White
Integrity can never be taken. It can only be given, and I wasn't going to give it up to these people. Gary Mowad
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
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HamiltonSquare
Apr 1, 2016 5:51 PM CST
All the new DNA analysis and major consolidations and expansions at the genus level are happen at a rate that makes it hard to keep up with. I think the pic you mentioned may have been moved because the foliage looks wrong. That's my quess. It appears that digitata is a synonym of C. pedata and C. leiocarpa is it's own species. That's all according to COL which seems to be the most current taxonomic index at this point. The admins and others seem to do a great job in hunting down whats most current if it's not already up to date in the database here. That confusing thread was a good example of their process. A very comprehensive look through several of the major taxonomic databases to see what was most current and who named what first in the past. Interesting but hard to follow the trail of info and come out with an answer on the other end.
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Name: Linda
Medina Co., TX (Zone 8a)
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LindaTX8
Apr 1, 2016 8:34 PM CST
I wish there were more info and better photos of plants native to specific parts of the country. I've got some books and I search on the internet and I still have a few plants on my property I can't get ID's on. Year before last, I went on a native plant society outing and it happened to be on a property a little bit similar to mine. They had a grass expert on that outing and I finally found out I had Seep Muhly grass when we found some plants there on that other place! I had thought it was something else, but that guy really knew his grasses.
I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority. E. B.White
Integrity can never be taken. It can only be given, and I wasn't going to give it up to these people. Gary Mowad
Name: Perylenne
North Texas (Zone 8a)
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Perylenne
May 8, 2016 3:42 PM CST
Hi Linda, that was probably me asking about the C. pedata entry here. I'm growing a handful this year and plan on uploading the photos to the database, but they're growing really slowly, so it may be a while. I think I've read that the whole plant dies down during the summer and returns as a rosette in the fall, so they're probably slow because they're out of season. Anyway, to my eye there's already a difference between them and C. digitata, even as small plants.

I've got a similar problem with photos and entries on Echinacea atrorubens; a lot of photos I've seen are mislabeled, and there isn't a lot of information on the plant because it seems like no one grows it, so as soon as I have some more good photos (they're blooming right now), I plan on adding to the info here.
Name: Linda
Medina Co., TX (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Salvias Herbs Bluebonnets Native Plants and Wildflowers Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
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LindaTX8
May 8, 2016 5:53 PM CST
Please do that, Perylenne! I love the winecups...so pretty, whatever their species might be! Many of the native perennials don't even bloom the first year.
I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority. E. B.White
Integrity can never be taken. It can only be given, and I wasn't going to give it up to these people. Gary Mowad

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