Plant ID forum: Brazilian climber on a mossy rock in the Atlantic Forest

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Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
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bonitin
Apr 16, 2016 5:45 AM CST
I wanted to take more and better details of this plant, but then my attention got drawn away by a snake gliding on the rock above my head, who was curious what I was doing. Rolling my eyes. Hilarious!

The main stem of the climber had more rounded leaves, (full of rock dust on the pics), than the side shoots with more elongated leaves.


[Last edited by bonitin - Apr 16, 2016 6:02 AM (+)]
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Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
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JRsbugs
Apr 16, 2016 7:19 AM CST
This is very similar to Marcgravia umbellata which is a little to the west of the coast .. family Marcgraviaceae. There's very few if you select Rio de Janeiro and Atlantic Rainforest, but a lot of entries otherwise.

http://www.araflora.fr/p1639/marcgravia_umbellata

I've selected only the south-east.

http://reflora.jbrj.gov.br/reflora/listaBrasil/ConsultaPubli...
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Apr 16, 2016 7:23 AM CST
This is the site I found Marcgravia ..

http://flickrhivemind.net/Tags/araceae,vine/Interesting
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Apr 16, 2016 7:57 AM CST
Marcgravia polyantha is in the area, the leaves vary but look more pointed.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/unigoettingen/sets/72157629962...

They differ on Flora SBS

https://sites.google.com/site/florasbs/marcgraviaceae/hera-d...
[Last edited by JRsbugs - Apr 16, 2016 7:59 AM (+)]
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Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Apr 16, 2016 9:55 AM CST
Definitely a Marcgravia Janet! I tip my hat to you. I tip my hat to you. I tip my hat to you.
There are only two species of it in the Rio de Janeiro state:
http://floradobrasil.jbrj.gov.br/reflora/listaBrasil/Consult...
Marcgravia polyantha and Marcgravia comosa.
Unfortunately I cannot find photo material of the last one on the web..
I does look very similar to Marcgravia polyantha, and it appears to be a bit variable in leaf shape.. but it looks like the mid-veines on mine on the side shoots have a whitish colour, but maybe that is just due to the light angle that falls on it..
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Apr 16, 2016 10:03 AM CST
I was just looking again at your first link and Marcgravia umbellata has that whitish mid vein!
But it is not supposed to be in that area.. Rolling my eyes.
http://www.araflora.fr/p1639/marcgravia_umbellata
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Apr 16, 2016 10:09 AM CST
They do vary according to age Myriam, the growing conditions might make a difference too.

There's more photos showing the rounded leaves on Marcgravia polyantha which have a paler edge. It's amazing how they change from growing on a tree trunk to a shrub, they are 'hemiepiphytes'.

http://www.ufrgs.br/fitoecologia/florars/index.php?pag=busca...

Marcgravia polyantha is listed on the following link which I started to go through but didn't get that far ..

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1676...

Just saw your post, Marcgravia umbellata does look a better fit! It's not far away so could be the one.



Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Apr 16, 2016 10:17 AM CST
Yes, I think so too, it is listed in the Flora do Brazil for Minas Gerais which is actually close by, I've been there too some years ago..
http://floradobrasil.jbrj.gov.br/reflora/listaBrasil/Consult...
I don't think plants care about human-made divisions between neighbouring states.. Hilarious!
I consider this one as solved!
Thank you so much!!
And you found it so quickly! I tip my hat to you.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Apr 16, 2016 11:36 AM CST
Thumbs up Thank You! Acorn Acorn Acorn Acorn Acorn nodding
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Apr 17, 2016 5:08 AM CST
Just found out that Marcgravia umbellata is now synonym for Marcgravia rectiflora!
http://www.catalogueoflife.org/col/details/species/id/c1b1a0...
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Apr 17, 2016 5:22 AM CST
It is confusing..
Some of the photos on the web look a very different plant from mine.. Confused
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/342804/
Shingle Vine (Marcgravia rectiflora)

This one looks more like it though, but missing the pronounced mid-vein:
http://floraelverde.catec.upr.edu/especie_info.php?id=318

maybe mine was a young plant,
I see in this photo that the side shoot leaves have the same shape as mine..
https://www.google.be/search?q=Marcgravia+rectiflora&espv=2&...
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Apr 17, 2016 5:41 AM CST
The Plant List gives Marcgravia umbellata as accepted, there's no notes to say the name has been changed.

http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/tro-50073663

http://www.ipni.org/ipni/plantNameByVersion.do?id=829097-1&v...

This type of plant starts it's growth from seed transported to a tree (by bats or other life forms), when it reaches the ground it then takes root and a different form.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemiepiphyte

Marcgravia rectiflora is also accepted.

http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-2506011

Barker: (A) standardisation made on 2012-02-27 14:48:42.0
• nol: (A) made on 2016-01-30 08:15:45.0


http://www.ipni.org/ipni/idPlantNameSearch.do;jsessionid=CD8...

Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Apr 17, 2016 5:57 AM CST
It is true Janet that when I google Marcgravia umbellata i find much more matches than under Marcgravia rectiflora, they do look different plants despite the leaf variation.
Marcgravia rectiflora is not listed in the Flora do Brasil for the entire country.
But the fact is that our database will not accept it as they take the Catalogue of Life as the authority..

?
@zuzu
@eclayne

Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Apr 17, 2016 6:00 AM CST
Yes Myriam, I mentioned Marcgravia rectiflora wasn't listed but the seeds could have been transported by a bat or bird, some Marcgravia are pollenated by bats.

Both species are accepted on the Catalogue of Life, putting the link to the other thread here:

http://garden.org/thread/view_post/1118705/
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Apr 17, 2016 6:05 AM CST
Thanks Janet, my mistake! *Blush*
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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eclayne
Apr 17, 2016 10:08 AM CST

Moderator

I've added Marcgravia umbellata Thanks for all the research Janet and Myriam.

FYI, In case you run across images with that author, the COL lists Marcgravia umbellata Griseb. as a synonym for M. rectiflora.
http://www.catalogueoflife.org/col/details/species/id/c1b1a0...
Evan
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Apr 17, 2016 12:12 PM CST
Thanks Evan! Thumbs up
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Plant Database Moderator Forum moderator Aroids Irises Celebrating Gardening: 2015
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge)
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eclayne
Apr 17, 2016 2:55 PM CST

Moderator

Thumbs up Thumbs up
Evan
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
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HamiltonSquare
Apr 17, 2016 5:18 PM CST
What about the snake? Any photos? Sighing!
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Apr 18, 2016 12:04 AM CST
I won't disappoint you Leslieray nodding
it was a thin snake but quite long, it could be a juvenile. I've seen much bigger and fatter in another spot, one dropping herself down from a big rockwall on a huge flat bolder by the river, landing only a few meters from where I was standing, she was very curious too, and came sliding towards me, somehow I felt she wasn't dangerous for humans, just curious and that was mutual! Hilarious!
Afterwards I found out it was a Tiger Ratsnake (Spilotes pullatus) living from rodents.
I even made a video film from it.
This was a little one, about 1m long:
Thumb of 2016-04-18/bonitin/d34f92 Thumb of 2016-04-18/bonitin/28c8b0 Thumb of 2016-04-18/bonitin/26a8df
Thumb of 2016-04-18/bonitin/3f0825 Thumb of 2016-04-18/bonitin/11f56f

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