Image
May 5, 2016 9:09 PM CST
Name: Elaine
Sarasota, Fl
The one constant in life is change
Amaryllis Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Orchids Master Gardener: Florida Irises
Herbs Region: Florida Vegetable Grower Daylilies Birds Cat Lover
Really interesting, Jim. I googled North American Brown Cobra and guess what I got? Picture of a really nice looking Shelby muscle car . . . Rolling my eyes. Rolling on the floor laughing

Yes, luckily for us in Florida there is enough swampy land and infertile land around that lots of "green space" is left for the critters. Most of the human development is near the coastline. There's also a lot of pasture land in Florida - did you know that we are the second biggest cattle producing state in the US after Texas?

We also have "corrections" by Mother Nature in the form of hurricanes once in a while. Ma just comes along with a sweep of her hand and destroys whole areas of housing that are in her way. Silly humans build houses too near the coastline, or on land that is too close to sea level, or in flood plains . . swoosshh, back they go to their "natural" state in one day.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Image
May 5, 2016 9:14 PM CST
Maryland (Zone 7b)
Passionate about Native Plants
Bee Lover Salvias Native Plants and Wildflowers Hummingbirder Critters Allowed Garden Photography
Butterflies Birds Region: Texas Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Photo Contest Winner 2021
I'm starting to see a lot of these little Dogface butterflies. Tomorrow I think I'll pretend that I'm Melanie and check the Amorpha fruticosa for caterpillars. Big Grin



Thumb of 2016-05-06/GrammaChar/69de62
Image
May 5, 2016 9:23 PM CST
Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
Annuals Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Garden Procrastinator Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Indiana
Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Dragonflies Cottage Gardener Butterflies Birds
Elaine Finding information about extinct creatures is very difficult , Pre 1970 is very difficult , Unless it has to with Paleontology ,
Last major problem was Nebraska or Kansas 1956 0r 58 .. 35 people were bitten , around either side of a dozen died ,
Last time I found the History of that (Brown Cobra )
I use to go through the National library , It use to be much more accessable , I found some 1920's and even earlier books with hand drawings that were really interesting ,
After 2000 when systems updated I have not had access to the long list of millions of publications in the Archives , Extincion info , naturalists all kinds of info dissapeared ,,
My 1970 Boy Scout manual mentiond a few ,,
always loved the creature info ,
In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
Image
May 5, 2016 10:06 PM CST
Name: Elaine
Sarasota, Fl
The one constant in life is change
Amaryllis Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Orchids Master Gardener: Florida Irises
Herbs Region: Florida Vegetable Grower Daylilies Birds Cat Lover
You're so right, Jim. And also back in those days (50's 60's etc.) it was just fine and dandy to kill off a whole species, especially if it was a deadly poisonous snake.

Thankfully we've come a long way from that mind set, but a lot of critters fell by the wayside never to return.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Image
May 5, 2016 10:17 PM CST
Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
Annuals Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Garden Procrastinator Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Indiana
Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Dragonflies Cottage Gardener Butterflies Birds
Elaine I remenber a recent study about Florida where the idea was about collecting all the invasive species and sending them back to where they came from , Hilarious!
like that was possible Confused

That idea became your zooology adoption program, Thumbs up
Life is wonderfully unique Lovey dubby
About the Storms ,, We (us People) are definitely going to have to do some adapting , For the time being , I am also Tornado Bait Where I am , Blinking
In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
Image
May 5, 2016 11:46 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
You know, I'm supposed to be in the range for the Dogface Sulphur, and I can only recall seeing one of them before. It was way back when I first started and the people on Dave's Garden had to identify it for me. Haven't seen one since. Don't know why.

Elaine, Mother Nature takes care of a lot of invasives when those storms come through. You guys know my dad is a woodturner, and he works with a company called Viable Lumber. They only use salvaged lumber. They don't take trees down, but once they're down, they'll haul them off and sell the pieces as slabs or turning stock. A lot of the species they take are invasives - Camphor, Chinaberry, Australian Pines, etc. People don't realize how damaging some of those trees can be in a storm. I just read another letter to the editor the other day about how they removed all the Australian Pines from Fort DeSoto beach. They're replacing them with natives, but a lot of people are whining about how they removed all those beautiful trees. But they don't realize what shallow root systems they have and when a storm comes along, those trees are going down. Same with Norfolk Island Pine. They get struck by lightning and fall down on houses. I know quite a few of the trees Dad and his friends salvaged were taken down because the homeowner's insurance required it. One nice thing about my county is there's a whole list of trees you can take down without a permit because they're invasive. It's nice to see government removing the red tape for a good cause.

Elaine, did you survive all the flooding in Sarasota? I saw it on the news yesterday. Looked pretty bad and I thought about you.
Image
May 6, 2016 6:39 AM CST
Name: josephine
Arlington, Texas (Zone 8a)
Hi Everybody!! Let us talk native.
Native Plants and Wildflowers Organic Gardener Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Butterflies Garden Ideas: Master Level Forum moderator
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Birds Cat Lover
We have the Dogface here, but it is rather scarce and very fast, you just about have to hold them if you want to see the design on top of the wings.
Wildflowers are the Smiles of Nature.
Gardening with Texas Native Plants and Wildflowers.
Last edited by frostweed May 6, 2016 10:43 AM Icon for preview
Image
May 6, 2016 6:49 AM CST
Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
Annuals Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Garden Procrastinator Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Indiana
Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Dragonflies Cottage Gardener Butterflies Birds
The dogface was seen here last year one county over , not by me though
I still have not seen a copper either
In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
Image
May 6, 2016 7:57 AM CST
Name: Elfrieda
Indian Harbour Beach, Florida (Zone 10a)
Annuals Foliage Fan Herbs Hibiscus Master Gardener: Florida Roses
Salvias Sedums Sempervivums Enjoys or suffers hot summers Ferns Dragonflies
Does anyone know what this moth is ?
Thumb of 2016-05-06/orchidgal/7527a6
“I was just sittin’ here enjoyin’ the company. Plants got a lot to say, if you take the time to listen”
Eeyore
Image
May 6, 2016 8:09 AM CST
Name: Elfrieda
Indian Harbour Beach, Florida (Zone 10a)
Annuals Foliage Fan Herbs Hibiscus Master Gardener: Florida Roses
Salvias Sedums Sempervivums Enjoys or suffers hot summers Ferns Dragonflies
This year I decided to raise as many Monarch butterflies as possible. I had wondered why I didn't see as many last year and found out (and researched) that the little wasps make a meal out of the Monarch's eggs. I have some "castles" to put milkweed plants in, but I also bought a couple of laundry hampers from Wal-Mart for less than $8.00. They zippered and an ideal size; however, the mesh is a little too big I think and a smaller wasp could get in. So, I bought some net curtains at a thrift store and just covered the hampers and secured with clothes pins.
So far, I've had 37 cocoons. Two days ago, it poured with rain all day and seven monarchs emerged. I eventually brought them out of their castle and put them on a plant for nectar and also some sugar water with cotton ball soaked in it. I think they ignored all of that and just waited until the rain went away.
Thumb of 2016-05-06/orchidgal/357621
Thumb of 2016-05-06/orchidgal/4d5009
Here's a picture of the hamper



Thumb of 2016-05-06/orchidgal/d86954
“I was just sittin’ here enjoyin’ the company. Plants got a lot to say, if you take the time to listen”
Eeyore
Image
May 6, 2016 8:15 AM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
orchidgal said:Does anyone know what this moth is ?
Thumb of 2016-05-06/orchidgal/7527a6



Cute face shot! Not being able to see anything but the face, I can't even guess at an ID.
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
Last edited by flaflwrgrl May 6, 2016 8:15 AM Icon for preview
Image
May 6, 2016 8:15 AM CST
Name: Ann ~Heat zn 9, Sunset
North Fl. (Zone 8b)
Garden Sages Region: Ukraine Native Plants and Wildflowers Xeriscape Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Charter ATP Member Plant Identifier Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Dog Lover
Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! for your raising monarchs!!!
I am a strong believer in the simple fact is that what matters in this life is how we treat others. I think that's what living is all about. Not what I've done in my life but how I've treated others. ~~ Sharon Brown
Image
May 6, 2016 8:17 AM CST
Name: Elaine
Sarasota, Fl
The one constant in life is change
Amaryllis Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Orchids Master Gardener: Florida Irises
Herbs Region: Florida Vegetable Grower Daylilies Birds Cat Lover
Yeah, no flooding problems where we are, I am on "high ground" - a whole 29ft. above sea level. The rain was very heavy, and kept on for a long time, and some parts of our lot slope a bit towards the house, but we put in French drains in those areas when we first moved in and they work great! They drain to a sump that gets pumped out to the street. I'm very happy all my rain barrels and cisterns are full now. They were running on empty before the deluge.

The only problem I had was the over 3in. of rainwater going into my swimming pool - I had a lovely green algae bloom in there starting yesterday. Happily my pool guy comes on Thursday and he caught it before the pool became Jell-O.

What a pleasure to sleep with the windows open again last night, too! The butterflies are waiting for the sun to warm them up this morning though - nobody out there fluttering around yet. I even took the camera and the tripod out to try and get some decent shots of the flutterbys - these two Zebra Longwings were the only visitors and they were mostly hanging out at the top of the mango tree, basking in the sun.
Thumb of 2016-05-06/dyzzypyxxy/06e723 Thumb of 2016-05-06/dyzzypyxxy/a12be2
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Image
May 6, 2016 10:28 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Elfrieda, that moth is a cutie, but without the wings, he could be a lot of species. That's great that you're raising Monarchs! Hurray!

Elaine, glad to hear everything is okay. My old house in Tampa was 32 feet above sea level and Dad used to say we were on a hill. Hilarious! At our new house here in Lutz, Dad put in a French drain. But that whole side yard area kept washing away. It's very shady so the grass doesn't really grow there. So he let me plant a whole bunch of native plants for erosion control. Hurray! That's where my Abutilon, Sweetbay, Yellow Anise, Parsley Hawthornes, Flatwoods Plum, Fringe Tree, and Mayhaw all grow. And you know I planted them too close together. I'm a terrible planner. Oh, and then I get volunteer Beautyberry that comes up (thank you, birds). And last year a Pokeweed showed up and I'm just letting it grow. There's some kind of moth that loves it. I raised one last year just to see what it turned into.

Well, I'm going to go get cleaned up because we're taking Mom and Grandma to Outback! Yum, yum. Bloomin' Onion for me! Not the whole thing; I share. Hilarious!
Image
May 6, 2016 9:41 PM CST
Name: Elfrieda
Indian Harbour Beach, Florida (Zone 10a)
Annuals Foliage Fan Herbs Hibiscus Master Gardener: Florida Roses
Salvias Sedums Sempervivums Enjoys or suffers hot summers Ferns Dragonflies
I did have some other pictures of the moth and a friend identified it as a Sphinx; which lays eggs into caterpillars known as the hated tomato hornworm ! Darn, wish I'd contained it first, then identified it. My tomatoes are looking so good right now and I'll be really mad at myself if I turned a tomato plant eating machine loose.
“I was just sittin’ here enjoyin’ the company. Plants got a lot to say, if you take the time to listen”
Eeyore
Image
May 6, 2016 9:43 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Well, before we went to Outback, I had to set a moth free. It was one of those little guys that hitched a ride with the Checkered Whites. And I should have known better than to open the front door without the camera in my hand because it was an absolute frenzy today! So get yourself a drink, get comfy, and get ready to enjoy some pictures while learning more about butterflies!

The first thing I noticed was a White butterfly that was clearly not a Checkered White. I went running back to my room to grab my camera and then went running back out front. As I ran, Dad commented about how God's plan of using butterflies to make me exercise was apparently working. I told him to shut it. Hilarious!

I didn't have my shoes on, only socks, and I got Spanish Needle seeds on my toes. Ouch! Anyway, it turned out to be a Great Southern White, as I expected. I have only seen these at my house in the past three to four years. I have been butterflying for nine years now. I used to think they didn't live in my area, but something has changed. They use Virginia Peppergrass as a host plant as well, but also a few other plants I don't grow. And I never see as many of them as I do the Checkered Whites. This one was male, and also very, very fast. I didn't think I was ever going to get a decent picture. I only saw it nectaring on the porterweed, by the way. Also, I can tell it's male because females are gray, and I can tell it's a Great Southern White because of the distinctive turquoise-colored antenna clubs. I love that. Nature has a way of surprising me with the smallest of details.

Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/d6525a Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/5e10f1 Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/8fe612

So the other thing that surprised me was not one, but TWO FEMALE Spicebush Swallowtails! Hurray! I also spotted the male. This means it's time for a lesson! How do we tell a male from a female Spicebush, Melanie? Well, females have blue scaling because they are mimicking the toxic Pipevine Swallowtail. Males look more silvery-gray to me, but the Spicebush used to be known as the "Green Swallowtail" or "Green Cloud Swallowtail" so some people must see it as green. I have old butterfly books that refer to them by this name, and I met an old-timer once at MOSI who knew it by that name. Remember, some scientists think Florida has its own subspecies, so your Spicebush butterflies may vary a bit. And if they do, share pictures!

Okay, so this is the female on the left, and the male on the right. If you're not my father, you can probably tell the difference. (Dad's a little colorblind. We still argue about the tile in our old house.)

Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/2c240a Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/15f92f

Well, I made Dad look and even he could tell the difference. He doesn't think they look green, though, and neither do I. Of course, I also think the Red-Spotted Purple should be the Orange-Spotted Blue. Rolling my eyes.

Okay, but one problem I had for a long time was how to tell a female Spicebush from the female dark-form of the Tiger Swallowtail. Pictures of the Tiger ST are from last year, but the Spicebush is from today. First, you can't tell from pics, but the Tiger ST will be noticeably larger. Next, try to look at the underside of the wings. Particularly, look at them with the sun coming through them. You can still see stripes even on the dark form of the Tiger ST. Finally, look at the body. The Spicebush will have dots along the body; the Tiger ST will have a solid black body.

So let's look at some pictures. Let's start with the female dark form of the Tiger ST. This one is a little beat up, so at first it looks like a Spicebush.

Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/f1e252

But notice the striping on the underside of the wings. And the solid black body.

Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/1157e3 Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/17507f

Now, let's look at the female Spicebush.

Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/ff14df

No striping, and dots on the body. Remember, butterflies often lose their wings, but they're not going to lose their bodies.

Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/61a10e Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/cc7146

Another piece of evidence? Eggs all over your Spicebush plants! Hurray! I really need a "happy dance" emoji. Spicebushes lay on the underside of the leaves so I was doing a lot of squats to peer under the plants. If I tried turning the leaves, I ended up twisting whole branches off. My plant is young, and not very sturdy. In fact, let's look at the plants first because I want to show you that your plants do not have to be that big to attract butterflies! I have four Spicebushes. Two were planted two years ago, but the one has always been bigger than the other. Honestly, I thought the one had died and was too lazy to pull it, but it came back. I bought two more this year because: my Sassafras died, and Spicebush plants are gendered and since mine have never bloomed, I'm assuming mine were the same gender. Okay, to the left is the "big" one, the middle is the smaller one, and the right is one of the babies I planted a few weeks ago.

Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/97b27b Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/4b97d9 Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/de6b8b

All of the plants got egged. They usually lay singly on each leaf, but you can see where I got doubles. I also found a few that were an odd color (look at the one on the right). I think they may be "duds", but I brought them in just in case.

Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/1862d1

Now, remember when I said if you remove the eggs, the butterfly will come back and lay more? Well, that happened. I couldn't get a picture, but I saw her do it. Also, due to the size of my Spicebushes, I had to modify my egg collection technique. Normally, I pick the leaf the egg is on. But if I did that today (and any other day), I'd pick a third of the leaves off and then what would I feed the caterpillars? So, if you're careful, you can use your fingernail to "pop" off the egg. It's pretty easy to do with Swallowtail eggs, but don't try it with non-spherical eggs like Sulphurs and even Monarchs because those squish too easily. Or if you're the least bit afraid to do it. It is an expert level skill. FYI, I know where plenty of Red Bay grows to feed all these caterpillars when I run out of Spicebush. (Hint: it's the same place I go pawpaw hunting. Which I need to do soon.) So here's a few more eggs I collected the second time around.

Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/d418a7

Okay, let's look at some pretty pictures for a minute. Here's a Duskywing!

Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/b73c91

Here's a Gulf Fritillary!

Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/3faba4

Zebra Longwing!

Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/e63634

Okay, time to learn again! I scared up something white and thought it was my butterfly again. Except, this was a moth. So how do you tell? Well, in this case, the antenna give it away. Butterfly antenna are shaped like golf clubs or hockey sticks, depending on your sports preference. Hilarious! Moth antenna vary a bit depending on male and female. But moths tend to have feathery antenna, and males have the more elaborate, bigger feathery antenna. Helps them sense the female pheromones, I think. I cropped this photo and blew it up so you can see what I mean. Have I mentioned I love this new camera?

Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/74ea92

I saw something flying at the neighbor's so I walked over. Giant Swallowtail was on the bottlebrush tree. This must be a male because I have zero eggs. He needs to get to work! And he looks like a fine specimen to me!

Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/17bccd Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/2ebd92

Now, for the sad learning opportunity. I found a couple of Gulf Frit caterpillars dead from what I call "melting disease". It's actually a virus. Read more about it from the nice folks at Shady Oak Butterfly Farm: http://www.butterflyfunfacts.c... I removed the cats and threw them out in the lawn. This is why I don't raise Gulf Frits in captivity.

Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/50f3c7 Thumb of 2016-05-07/mellielong/c4f540

I also saw the Monarch again, but the Gulf Fritillary chased it off! Hilarious! Well, I'm going to go to bed so I can get up early and do some gardening. It feels downright cold outside - it's in the 60's! Not going to get weather like this again for months so I'm taking full advantage. Also, Mom got my gardening jeans miraculously clean considering the shape they were in last time, so I guess it's time to dirty them again! Rolling on the floor laughing
Image
May 6, 2016 9:47 PM CST
Thread OP
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
Elfrieda, there are several members of the Sphinx Moth family. Only one of them is the Tobacco Hornworm that eats tomato plants and other things in the nightshade family. (Note: the Tobacco Hornworm is found on the east coast, the Tomato Hornworm is found on the west coast. This is why we use Latin names.)

If you look at last month's thread, you'll see I'm raising a Tersa Sphinx Moth which eats Pentas. I found a Pluto Sphinx Moth once that ate Firebush. The Catalpa Sphinx Moth eats - you guessed it - Catalpa trees!
Image
May 6, 2016 10:04 PM CST
Name: Jim D
East Central Indiana (Zone 5b)
Annuals Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Garden Procrastinator Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Indiana
Hummingbirder Frogs and Toads Dragonflies Cottage Gardener Butterflies Birds
Only seen one red Admiral the past few days , I am not even seeing Cabbage White a constant and always here , I have that feeling this is going to be a slow Butterfly year for me ,
usually I would see a half dozen Mourning Cloak by this time also ,
Maybe I am not there when they are ,?

Nice photo op Melanie , Hurray! Hurray! Hurray! Smiling
In the Butterfly garden if a plant is not chewed up I feel like a failure
Image
May 7, 2016 12:42 AM CST
Thread OP
Name: Melanie
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Butterflies Enjoys or suffers hot summers Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Bookworm
Region: Florida Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Plant Identifier Salvias
I swear I'm about to go to bed but I just got the newsletter and had to read it. And guess what? This thread was the 6th most active thread this week with 57 replies! By the way, the bird thread slaughtered us with 136 replies. We can do better! But we haven't been on the list at all for a while, so it's good to see the return of the butterflies! Hurray!

It's not a competition, but it totally is. Rolling on the floor laughing I'll take quality over quantity any day, though, and you guys have some real quality posts! I tip my hat to you.

If you'd like to read the newsletter, or subscribe, click here: http://garden.org/newsletter/
Image
May 7, 2016 6:32 AM CST
Name: David Laderoute
Zone 5B/6 - NW MO (Zone 5b)
Ignoring Zones altogether
Seed Starter Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Level 1
Imagine the stories this guy could tell. Remigrant found in Driftwood Texas a couple weeks ago.


Thumb of 2016-05-06/DavidLMO/760358
Seeking Feng Shui with my plants since 1976

Only the members of the Members group may reply to this thread.
Member Login:

( No account? Join now! )

Today's site banner is by mcash70 and is called "Queen Ann's Lace"

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.