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Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin
hampartsum
May 12, 2016 10:18 AM CST
Hi just a reminder, I've just brought in our summer/fall harvest of hot peppers. They are really worth the while because they are so easy to grow. They are Padrón a Spanish type hot pepper not too hot.
Thumb of 2016-05-12/hampartsum/a60550


This a tray of Cayennes awaiting to be dried and stored in tins eventually.


Thumb of 2016-05-12/hampartsum/f2d016

Thinking that we've collected this much from less than 12 sp ft. which provides us ample hot peppers for our home use for this coming year or probably a second one as well., it doesn`t require much space either.

I've read also that capsicin is reported as a natural anticarcinogen . At least I found an added reason to keep adding hot peppers to my stews! Hilarious!
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
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RickCorey
May 12, 2016 11:41 AM CST
Those are beautiful, Arturo!

The Padróns look pretty hot, with that wrinkled skin.

Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin
hampartsum
May 12, 2016 12:27 PM CST
Hi Rick on the upper right hand corner you can see the more recent padrons collected this morning. Those of the other end are the first harvested and were staying in the sun to dry up. But as expected the rainy season has started and it no longer pays to leave them outside so I brought them in to finish off their drying indoors in an upper shelf in the kitchen. Both peppers are open pollinated so their seeds can be used for further sowing. Their viability is quite high and one can keep seeds for sowing for at least 3 years. I don't have a Saville measurer so I can not say how hot they are, but something in the middle order; that still little green one is sufficient for us without burning our existence thru! nodding in a four person size stew. Like all our food grown here these also are organic.
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
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RickCorey
May 12, 2016 2:27 PM CST
I see, they aren't wrinkled until they dry up.

I was going by @cycadjungle 's article on how to gauge hotness by looking. His examples are probably of fresh peppers.
http://garden.org/ideas/view/cycadjungle/2032/How-Hot-IS-Tha...


I've always wondered whether the seeds within one pepper are more closely related than seeds in an adjacent pepper on the same plant. Like, does one pollen grain fertilize ALL the seeds in one pepper fruit, or is it "one-grain-of-pollen-for-each-fertile-seed?
Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin
hampartsum
May 12, 2016 2:53 PM CST
In the case of peppers, the ovary has many ovules in separate locules. Three in these capsicums. By the way the flower opens the most probable is that the pollen comes from the same flower, from an anther right next to the pistil ( female) that is just inside. Each grain that finally is attached to the pistil will reach an ovule and complete the fertilization. That is for each seed just one grain of pollen of the same flower most probably. Thanks for the link, I'm sure that mine aren't anywhere as hot. Somewhere in between sweet peppers and the really hot stuff.
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
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RickCorey
May 12, 2016 4:06 PM CST
So peppers mostly pollinate themselves? Like tomatoes?

I had heard that inter-planting hot and sweet peppers CAN result in some hot seed on sweet mothers. But even tomatoes have some cross-pollination, depending on variety and aggressiveness of pollinating insects.

And I think you said capsicums have three ovules (and three pistils?) in each bloom, or rather, for each fruit.

But the genetics are just: "mostly self-pollinated".

>> Each grain that finally is attached to the pistil will reach an ovule and complete the fertilization.
>> That is for each seed just one grain of pollen of the same flower most probably.

So each SEED results from one grain of pollen?

Many grains of pollen land on each pistil, and many grains of pollen fertilize seeds within each ovule?

Each seed within an ovule is unlikely to share a pollen parent (except for the fact that 80-99% of all capsicum seeds are self-pollinated (by the same bloom the ovule is in)?

Do I understand correctly?
Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin
hampartsum
May 12, 2016 5:35 PM CST
Yes Rick although most of the nighshades are self pollinators some cross pollination occurs. Lycopersicon, Solanun amd Capsicum are very closely related genera If you look carefully their inner floral anatomy they are all very much alike. I just checked what my JC.Willis Dictionary of flowering plants says. about the Solanaceae= the nightshade familiy. The ovary has two separate locules (that is distinct bags) that harbor the ovules and the style has a two lobed stygma where the pollen sticks. Normally each grain of pollen that has stuck to the two lobed sticky stigma will start its germinative process by which a tube is formed that tries to reach an available ovule. At the tip of the cellular tube are the cromosomes . Once the tube reaches a given ovule then they merge and fecundation has occured and the formation of the seed embryo starts. Only one pollen grain of the many that try to reach each fertile ovule. In the case of the capsicums some have a three loculed ovary instead of two. When you open up a pepper you find the seeds clustered at the top and along lines fixed to walls. These lines are the placenta where the ovules stand before each becomes a seed. So in your above mentioned post, you are confusing the word ovule with the word ovary. The ovary is the lower female part of a flower and contains the female counterpart in the form of female cells called ovules as different from ovary. Normally once pollination / fecundation has occured the ovary develops in what is known as a fruit. It becomes fleshy and according to its reproductive strategy it will add juice cells, pigments and taste to tease disseminators to carry the fruit off somewhere( that is usually the case for berries like peppers, tomatoes and most of what we know in common language fruits). The ovary still contains in its interior the former ovules now transformed into seeds but almost in the exact position as they were inside the initial ovary. Only that now the whole organ starts growing into what we end up eating! Smiling
Tomatoes benefit from hand shaking when grown inside a greenhouse. Large commercial growers use some kind of vibration. They do not rely on insect pollination. the same is true for other indoor grown solanaceae ( peppers, eggplants). In the open there are more chances that some insects will cross pollinate and wind can carry pollen from flower to other. For that reason its best to keep sweet peppers distant from hot ones because they might cross pollinate. But as far as what I know hot descendants of sweet peppers will appear only in the following generation, not those simply pollinated by a hot pepper pollen. But usually nature has its surprises. In the link you mentioned capsicin appears in the placenta and not inside the seeds. Thus I must preclude that the hot part is in the ovary/female counterpart and not inside the pollen, which makes sense from an evolutionary point of view. I really haven't investgated what role hotness plays in the overall reproductive strategy of a hot pepper. Since cultivated plants are man associated and become cultural obligate associates some traits like hotness acquire adaptive advantages more due to the humans than to the original plants themselves. Cultivated hot peppers need vegetable gardeners that provide conditions to continue to grow and reproduce. I do hope that I explained it correctly.
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
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RickCorey
May 12, 2016 7:20 PM CST
>> But as far as what I know hot descendants of sweet peppers will appear only in the following generation, not those simply pollinated by a hot pepper pollen.

That's my understanding also.

>> Once the tube reaches a given ovule then they merge and fecundation has occured and the formation of the seed embryo starts. Only one pollen grain of the many that try to reach each fertile ovule.

There are many seeds per fruit (or berry - the whole pepper that we pluck from the plant and then eat).

But it sounds like there are only (3 or 6?) ovules per capsicum berry or fruit.

Then I assume that each ovule can accept many grains of pollen, and produce many seeds ... but only one seed per grain of pollen.

Am I still following you?



Name: Sandy B.
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Weedwhacker
May 12, 2016 8:47 PM CST
Very nice harvest, Arturo!

"I'm sure that mine aren't anywhere as hot. Somewhere in between sweet peppers and the really hot stuff."

Those are the kind I like to grow -- I love hot peppers, but not when they're so hot I can't taste them!
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Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin
hampartsum
May 13, 2016 1:50 AM CST
Actually Rick both types of hot peppers depicted have more than three or six seeds. So that means that initially there were many more ovules. What happens sometimes that not all existing ovules get a pollen grain tube. Those simply wither and dissappear. On other hand each fertile ovule will accept just one fertile pollen grain tube. The rest that were also trying to hit that given ovule will also dissappear inside the pistil. Of course all just said can only be seen under a microscope.
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
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RickCorey
May 13, 2016 11:19 AM CST
>> initially there were many more ovules.
>> On other hand each fertile ovule will accept just one fertile pollen grain tube.

OK, thank you, now I'm thinking this:

- each ovule produces at most one seed
- each successful pollen grain produces at most one seed
- initially there are MANY ovules, like more ovules than there can be seeds in that pepper.
- ovules that are not fertilized by a pollen tube produce NO seed, wither and disappear

Thanks very much for hanging in there and answering repeatedly until I understood.
Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin
hampartsum
May 13, 2016 4:18 PM CST
Good Rick!! I'm delighted that we could straighten it out for you! You got it Hurray! btw this holds true for any flowering plant in the world. You more than deserve to be explained. You're a good student!! Thumbs up I'm grateful that you insisted. I derive much pleasure in sharing what I learnt from others keeping and widening knowledge anywhere in the world. warmly Arturo
Name: Rick Corey
Everett WA 98204 (Zone 8a)
Sunset Zone 5. Koppen Csb. Eco 2f
I helped beta test the first seed swap Plant and/or Seed Trader Seed Starter Region: Pacific Northwest Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Vegetable Grower
Avid Green Pages Reviewer Garden Ideas: Master Level Garden Sages I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Charter ATP Member
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RickCorey
May 13, 2016 7:11 PM CST
Thanks again!

People at work, and my DSO (*), find me very annoying because I insist that we pursue and nail down tightly every minor issue or potential ambiguity.

At work I have the excuse that we make anti-skid control software for airplanes like the 787 and A320. You can't say "close enough" or "probably" in that line of work.


(*)
DSO : Dear Significant Other, i.e. spouse-like person.
Name: Arturo Tarak
Bariloche, Rio Negro, Argentin
hampartsum
May 14, 2016 5:23 AM CST
It's good to feel that a Boeing has been controlled up to the degree of almost 100% perfection!! Imho with my scientific background I like to step ahead for clear cut foundations of my shared thought. In the living world that is not always the case, but at least try to nail down as far as possible I'm addind DSO to my acronyms nodding nodding Thank you and have a good weekend. Arturo

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