Plant ID forum: Can anyone help I'd please

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Sheppard
May 20, 2016 12:02 PM CST
This was in a kitchen garden smells a bit like mint, but no one can id it, can anyone help please




Thumb of 2016-05-20/Sheppard/041043

Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
May 20, 2016 12:34 PM CST
Welcome! My first thought was catnip, Nepeta cataria, but the leaves on yours look a bit more elongated and pointy. Yours looks to have a square stem so probably in the mint family anyway.

Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
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JRsbugs
May 20, 2016 1:09 PM CST
Welcome!

Is the scent lemony?

If it is it's probably Nepeta cataria citriodora. I had one set itself in a pot which survived for a few years, now I have one which set itself in the ground which is looking strong and healthy. Flowers will give you a better idea.

Thumb of 2016-05-20/JRsbugs/bc2f69 Thumb of 2016-05-20/JRsbugs/79294b

Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
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HamiltonSquare
May 21, 2016 11:56 AM CST
Possibly Stachys discolor or some other Stachys.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
[Last edited by HamiltonSquare - May 21, 2016 12:12 PM (+)]
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Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
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JRsbugs
May 21, 2016 1:15 PM CST
The leaves are not right for Stachys discolor?

https://www.nargs.org/plant/stachys-discolor

Leaves 2.5-4cm long, oblong-lanceolate, deeply crenate, wrinkled dark green above, white-felted below.


http://encyclopaedia.alpinegardensociety.net/plants/Stachys/...

http://www.biopix-foto.de/stachys-discolor_photo-81470.aspx
[Last edited by JRsbugs - May 22, 2016 7:37 AM (+)]
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Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
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HamiltonSquare
May 21, 2016 1:24 PM CST
Your right. It's not even close. I should have check more sources. The photo by vic from Crownsville Nursery looks completely wrong right? edit. Perhaps just an S. officinalis cultivar.
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
[Last edited by HamiltonSquare - May 21, 2016 1:27 PM (+)]
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Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
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JRsbugs
May 21, 2016 1:31 PM CST
I think the photo by vic is likely to be correct. The description says:

Flowers rose or occasionally cream, 2cm or more long, in whorled spikes,


If you use the magnifier (tools cog) you will see the leaves look right.
Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
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HamiltonSquare
May 21, 2016 1:46 PM CST
Looks more like this, S. officinalis to me than S. discolor. Shrug!
Thumb of 2016-05-21/HamiltonSquare/a7b4ac

Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
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JRsbugs
May 21, 2016 2:30 PM CST
Hmmm, Salvia officinalis is the common herb Sage. I have had it in my garden for a few years now, the leaves are greyish and look just like this pic:

http://www.floristtaxonomy.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Sa...

I doubt the photo you posted is Salvia officinalis.

I wondered if the flowers were big enough in vic's pic, the scale is difficult to tell. I blew up the photo and took a snip,

Thumb of 2016-05-21/JRsbugs/29662b



Name: Leslieray Hurlburt
Sacramento California (Zone 9b)
The WITWIT Badge Region: California Plant Lover: Loves 'em all! Xeriscape Native Plants and Wildflowers Salvias
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HamiltonSquare
May 21, 2016 3:07 PM CST
Stachys officinalis Smiling
Hamilton Square Garden, Historic City Cemetery, Sacramento California.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
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JRsbugs
May 21, 2016 4:31 PM CST
HamiltonSquare said:Stachys officinalis Smiling


Ooooh, that S. officinalis! Hilarious!

I think you are right.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Stachys+officinalis&source...

Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
May 22, 2016 5:31 AM CST
To me the leaves in the ID plant look too pointy at the tips to be Stachys officinalis?

Edited to add, there's something odd in the ID plant picture - it presumably is an illusion but it looks as though two of the leaves are compound
[Last edited by sooby - May 22, 2016 5:36 AM (+)]
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Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
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JRsbugs
May 22, 2016 7:37 AM CST
Sue, the Stachys officinalis we were referring to is the photo by vic in the database under Stachys discolor.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
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JRsbugs
May 22, 2016 7:50 AM CST
Sue, I see what you mean about two of the leaves looking to be compound. The ones on the lower right might be in two sets of two. The three on a stalk to the top left does give the impression of compound leaves. It might be that the tip was broken out, leaving a single leaf? If it is a Nepeta, they grown side shoots with flowers coming from the apex.

I'll take a good look at mine.
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
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JRsbugs
May 22, 2016 7:52 AM CST
If you see a cat doing this in the link below, it's catnip. Rolling on the floor laughing

http://g01.a.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1jHZwIpXXXXc9XXXXq6xXFXXXM/100...
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
May 22, 2016 8:00 AM CST
JRsbugs said:Sue, the Stachys officinalis we were referring to is the photo by vic in the database under Stachys discolor.


So Vic's image is in the wrong place? Stachys discolor and Stachys officinalis are different plants according to Catalogue of Life. The leaves still look to have a sharper tip on the ID plant to me. I also wondered about Agastache, maybe anise hyssop, but the teeth on some pictures don't look quite right. Or maybe an actual mint of some kind. Be easier when it flowers!

Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
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JRsbugs
May 22, 2016 8:12 AM CST
We think vic's photo is in the wrong place Sue.

The upper leaves on my Nepeta cataria citriodora as posted above are quite pointed on the tip, I have a photo of the same plant when it was growing in a pot when it was without the flower spike, the leaves are more rounded on the basal leaves.

I have Agastache, an aniseed scented one and a peppermint one that keep setting around, both have a very strong smell. If we could get a better idea of the type of scent the leaves have it would help but flowers help more. Some Agastache leaves do look much like Nepeta cataria.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Agastache+leaves&biw=1184&...

The young plant of Nepeta cataria citriodora ..

Thumb of 2016-05-22/JRsbugs/7a3867

Name: Rick R.
near Minneapolis, MN zone 4a
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Leftwood
May 23, 2016 6:05 AM CST
sooby said:
Edited to add, there's something odd in the ID plant picture - ... it looks as though two of the leaves are compound


Yes! (No offense intended.)
And the variability ought to be taken into account.

Thumb of 2016-05-23/Leftwood/ef7b22



Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
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sooby
May 23, 2016 6:46 AM CST
I tried to find something in the mint family that had compound leaves with the typical square stem yesterday and didn't find anything. I know there are a few other plants with square stems so tried to find some - according to this U of Wisconsin botany page, the combo of square stem and opposite leaves is almost unique to mints, but Verbenaceae and some Urtica also do. I haven't looked for compound leaves in those yet:

http://www.botany.wisc.edu/courses/botany_401/lab/Lab15lamia...

Edit: According to eFloras in Flora of China some Verbenaceae do have compound leaves.
[Last edited by sooby - May 23, 2016 6:49 AM (+)]
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Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
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Ursula
May 23, 2016 6:57 AM CST
My first thought looking at this was Lemon Melissa, Melissa officinalis, but the scent description is not exactly "a bit like Mint", but perhaps lemony minty?

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