Plant ID forum: Wildflower ID

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upat5
Jun 1, 2016 7:01 AM CST
Hello.

Found this plant growing in wood in Appalachians, N. Virginia. I do not see others around so I assume deer like it! It is in fairly deep shade. About a ft high, opposite leaves, toothed. No flowers yet. So even if you can't ID it positively could you give me a ballpark? Opposite leaves around here are somewhat uncommon other than mint, Asclepias sp and loosestrife.

Any ideas?

Thank-you!
Thumb of 2016-06-01/upat5/cd0293


upat5
Jun 1, 2016 7:03 AM CST
Close-up of leaves.
Thumb of 2016-06-01/upat5/d3d43b

Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
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JRsbugs
Jun 1, 2016 8:13 AM CST
Welcome!

Monarda clinopodia has similar leaves, and with darkened petioles but the base of the leaf on yours is more acute.

http://www.pbase.com/waterfallrich/image/160813021

Could still be a Monarda ..

http://www.phytoneuron.net/2015Phytoneuron/28PhytoN-Monardaa...

http://www.pbase.com/waterfallrich/southern_appalachian_wild...

Or something similar, the leaf venation of Blephilia ciliata is very similar but the stems on yours don't look square? If they are not then I'm in the wrong family.

https://gobotany.newenglandwild.org/species/blephilia/ciliat...

http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?search=Blephilia+ciliata&...


upat5
Jun 1, 2016 9:05 AM CST
Thanks for the suggestions!

Though...not Blephilia sp...I have those growing...grew them from seed...I don't think it's a mint. And I have monarda...as you said...leaf hasn't the right shape unless there are some that don't fit the "profile"! The only other things that survive around here due to high deer population are some asters, woodland varieties but I don't think they're this either! Probably going turn out to be some terribly invasive species that's taking over the woods Rolling my eyes.

Anyway, please let me know if anything else comes to mind because chances are the deer will find them before they flower!
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Jun 1, 2016 9:10 AM CST
Can you say if the stems are square? That would make all the difference, if I know that then I can search further.

upat5
Jun 1, 2016 9:53 AM CST
Thanks Janet! Just went to check....stems are not square and not sure if it shows well in pic but there are some hairs near leaf axil and along veins on back of leaf. There are actually 4 plants of this species in this one location...the other 3 are much smaller and appear to be a bit hairier...guess that lessens or becomes sparser as it gains height?
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Jun 1, 2016 11:35 AM CST
Scrophulariaceae?

http://flora.huh.harvard.edu/FloraData/1001/Images/Scrophula...

http://theseedsite.co.uk/scrophulariaceae.html

Virginia wildflowers ..

https://virginiawildflowers.org/tag/appalachian-mountains/pa...

Digital Atlas of Virginia Flora ..

http://vaplantatlas.org/index.php?do=browse:family

Chelone is in the family Plantaginaceae on vaplantatlas, the leaf venation is very much alike.

http://vaplantatlas.org/index.php?do=browse:family&id=176

Genera in Scrophulariaceae..

http://luirig.altervista.org/flora/taxa/north-america.php?st...


upat5
Jun 1, 2016 12:00 PM CST
They are similar but I have Chelone glabra....its leaves are somewhat narrower....I think that's the only species native around here...I am in Clarke County. I also have a Chelone sp. with pink flowers but am not sure which species...these have rounder leaves. So, I don't think it's Chelone.

Getting closer though! Thank-you!

I looked here under Clarke County but I don't know enough about many of the species to make a wild guess....

http://vaplantatlas.org/index.php?do=browse:county&letter=C

Anything stand out to you?
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Jun 1, 2016 1:01 PM CST
I went through the list but nothing stood out. I recognised many of the genera, some which I am unfamiliar with I looked at.

As there's a small group I wonder if a bird transported seed from elsewhere, such as from a garden?

upat5
Jun 1, 2016 1:35 PM CST
That is possible but usually when that happens (with the exception of vines) around here it's either something monstrously invasive and it is everywhere or it grows only at the edge of the wood/grassy areas. I think seed dropped in the woods has a very low survival rate but I guess there's always a first time! Well, anyway thank-you for your help and please let me know if anything else comes to mind! I'll post a pic if/when it flowers!
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Jun 1, 2016 1:53 PM CST
Once they flower, if they get the chance, we will be in a better position to say what they are.

There's always a first time, if they flower then seed could gradually spread them further if they don't get eaten first.
Name: Kent Pfeiffer
Southeast Nebraska (Zone 5b)
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator Plant Identifier Region: Nebraska Forum moderator
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KentPfeiffer
Jun 1, 2016 2:08 PM CST

Moderator

It's a perennial sunflower. I would guess Helianthus laevigatus, but it's hard to say for sure. There are a number of pretty similar species.

http://vaplantatlas.org/index.php?do=plant&plant=2140
Name: Janet Super Sleuth
Near Lincoln UK
Charter ATP Member Organic Gardener Garden Photography Bee Lover Dragonflies Cat Lover
Butterflies Birds Plant Identifier I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Spiders!
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JRsbugs
Jun 1, 2016 2:37 PM CST
I looked at some Helianthus, H. laevigatus has a very short petiole but that appears to vary, the leaf venation doesn't appear to quite match.

This key might help once it flowers..

https://www.cals.ncsu.edu/plantbiology/ncsc/rare/helianthus....

http://plants.usda.gov/core/profile?symbol=Hela2#

The petioles on this herbarium specimen are longer, but the venation running parallel or near to the lateral margins appears to be quite straight where the ID plant has 'bumps' for want of a better word.

http://bisque.iplantcollaborative.org/image_service/image/00...






upat5
Jun 1, 2016 4:36 PM CST
Thank-you for your input! I've just spent an hr looking at Helianthus sp. in my area. While it seems to resemble a sunflower it doesn't seem to be a complete match for any plant I've looked at...I am not a botanist so please forgive my descriptions but it seems that the species I'm trying to ID has broader leaves and is "sturdier" in appearance than most woodland species in my area. The leaf edges and the pubescent veins don't seem to fit. I'm assuming it's a "woodland" species because it looks at home in dense shade. Hoping it has plans to flower soon :)

update:
I *think* it's Helianthus strumosus but I'll wait for flowers to show up!

https://www.minnesotawildflowers.info/flower/woodland-sunflo...

Thank-you so much Janet and Kent!
[Last edited by upat5 - Jun 3, 2016 4:32 AM (+)]
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upat5
Sep 16, 2016 7:54 PM CST
Well, it's been 3 months but I think I finally figured out what this plant is! I thought sunflower but when I found dead seed heads and shook them expecting sunflower seeds to fall out, I found Silphium seeds instead. So I believe it is some sort of Silphium species. VA plant atlas says only species in my area is Silphium asteriscus, but as this plant seems to have quite a few instances of 3 leaves around the stem instead of 2, maybe I should go with Silphium asteriscus L. var. trifoliatum?
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