Orchids forum: Variegated Epipactis helleborine.

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Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
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bhart90
Jun 27, 2016 3:00 PM CST
Maybe, Possibly.....
......Hopefully

I was clearing out our field and didn't know what this was, but it looked too unique to rip up, so I asked for an I.D.


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and I learnt it was Epipactis helleborine. Invasive, pretty. But invasive.
Researching I also found out his has VERY LOW traces of Oxycodone. (I would of grown these plants when I was 18.........). But now, I laugh at the effect it has. Especially on wasps; their primary pollinators. They will even get a "high" from consistency of feeding.

GETTING to the point......

I was cleaning up our front flower bed and found these under tall day lilies....




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I hope this is truly something unique, and not an environmental fluke.

Either way, if it wasn't for you guys, I would never of knew where to look for identification, so thank you!
Brenden
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
Charter ATP Member Spiders! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Pennsylvania Greenhouse Cactus and Succulents
Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Ponds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: New Jersey
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Ursula
Jun 27, 2016 3:28 PM CST

Moderator

You know, I am looking at budding and flowering Epipactis helleborine all the time, just take a look at our "walk about" thread. I have never ever seen a variegated helleborine. I think I might have flipped my lid if I would have been in your shoes! How exciting!!
If that were me, I would put a cage around it to protect it, and see if it comes back next year and if it is again coming up variegated. I would certainly keep my eye on that plant.
Btw, yes I have read people talking about this charming little Orchid as being invasive. Somehow I really doubt that. The only reason people might come up with that is because this Orchid is indigenous to parts of Northern Europe and found its way here. I remember a Swedish lady telling me that this this plant grows near her home town. Somehow I can't possibly imagine this plant taking over, especially not in our temperate climate.
Now Japanese Knotweed? Now we are talking invasive!!
Name: Jim Hawk
Odessa, Florida (Zone 9b)
Charter ATP Member Hibiscus Birds Bromeliad Greenhouse Master Gardener: Florida
Garden Photography Region: United States of America Roses Tropicals Region: Florida Orchids
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hawkarica
Jun 27, 2016 3:37 PM CST
I'm not too worried about this cold growing terrestrial invading the deep south. It does have a lovely flower however. I'd rather have it than that blasted balsam apple vine.

Jim
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
Charter ATP Member Spiders! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Pennsylvania Greenhouse Cactus and Succulents
Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Ponds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: New Jersey
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Ursula
Jun 27, 2016 4:22 PM CST

Moderator

I just pulled out some older pictures to show budding plants, plants in bloom, the blooms and an actual pollinator.
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Your variegated plant in bloom should be a show stopper!

Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
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bhart90
Jun 27, 2016 8:02 PM CST
God, I hope. Tomorrow I got the day off, and before I even WATER my hybrids I the field, I'm guarding this 1 up first.
Brenden
Name: Daisy
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
Garden Sages Plant Identifier
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DaisyI
Jun 27, 2016 8:08 PM CST
Cool wasp pictures Ursula. I have a variegated Epipactis gigantea that showed up in my yard one time. I isolated it and it continued to be variegated. Its variegation is along the leaf edge and it blooms pink. Just pink. Sighing!
Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
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bhart90
Jun 27, 2016 8:44 PM CST
Picture please.
Brenden
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
Charter ATP Member Spiders! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Pennsylvania Greenhouse Cactus and Succulents
Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Ponds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: New Jersey
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Ursula
Jun 28, 2016 5:58 AM CST

Moderator

Oh yes please!
Daisy, that sounds lovely!
Name: Daisy
Reno, Nv (Zone 6b)
Not all who wander are lost
Garden Sages Plant Identifier
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DaisyI
Jun 28, 2016 9:29 AM CST
Its not as impressive as yours is. The variegation is just on the edge - some years more and some years less.
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Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
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bhart90
Jun 28, 2016 4:18 PM CST
It's neat regardless!
Knowing if you weren't Who You Are You might not even notice the amazing significance of it, so hats off to you my friend you are inspiring!
Brenden
Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
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bhart90
Jun 28, 2016 4:20 PM CST
Also, if you were me, would you think about this? Assuming let's see....... The plant stays consistent for years to come would there be any way I could get it patented or possibly profit off of it? Considering that it might be desirable? I know the process is strenuous, but let's just skip to the end is there anyway I could do really well with having this plant?
Brenden
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
Charter ATP Member Spiders! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Pennsylvania Greenhouse Cactus and Succulents
Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Ponds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: New Jersey
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Ursula
Jun 28, 2016 5:27 PM CST

Moderator

Daisy, nice leaves! I have Bletillas with this type of variegation.

Brenden, perhaps others might chime in here with different ideas. The thought of profit never comes to my mind, when I see interesting plants like that.
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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dyzzypyxxy
Jun 29, 2016 1:05 PM CST
Very doubtful you could profit off that plant. It's certainly a desirable plant, Brenden. But - and this is a Big But!! there are problems with the idea of propagating it for profit. Not to mention some big, expensive roadblocks in the process.

- First, you have to grow it for a few years to make sure it doesn't revert back to monochrome type. Daisy's plant hasn't so that is good. But it might be just a sport or an anomaly and not a genuine stable genetic mutation.
- Second, you need to see if you can propagate it successfully and grow variegated babies that are again stable - don't revert back to all green. That's going to take another couple of years, and be pretty iffy, jmho. You'd have to propagate it by divisions, cuttings or cloning not seeds because the seeds would certainly carry the dominant monochromatic genes so a percentage (probably a large percentage) of seedlings would be all green.
- Third, assuming you've met the first and second criteria, you'd have to grow these plants out to a size where you'd be able to sell and ship them successfully. I'd think that would take an ability to isolate the plants somehow, maybe in a greenhouse so they wouldn't mix with the plain ones.
- Fourth, patenting a plant, oh my! You'd have to prove that it is a unique plant that nobody else has, probably they do this by DNA profiling now, I'd guess. Very hard to defend a patent like that, IF you even could get it patented in the first place which is a long drawn out process and very expensive. If a large nursery got hold of one of your plants and began propagating and selling it, you'd be faced with hiring lawyers and getting more DNA proof that their plant IS the same as your patented plant - more huge expense.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
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bhart90
Jun 29, 2016 4:21 PM CST
If I had acorns I would toss you some haha! The hospital that I work with, an anesthesiologist has a plant patented himself. It is called pink lemonade bromeliad. Why all images are black and white I don't know, come on Google...
Brenden
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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dyzzypyxxy
Jun 29, 2016 4:38 PM CST
Well then, when you get the chance, ask him about the process he went through to patent his plant.
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Name: Carol
Santa Ana,Ca. (Zone 10b)
Sunset zone 22
Charter ATP Member Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Orchids Region: California Plant Identifier
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ctcarol
Jun 29, 2016 6:21 PM CST
From what I've read, those don't take well to domestication, or being moved at all.
Name: Elaine
South Sarasota, Florida (Zone 9b)
The one constant in life is change
Cat Lover Master Gardener: Florida Tropicals Multi-Region Gardener Vegetable Grower Region: Florida
Herbs Orchids Birds Garden Ideas: Level 2 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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dyzzypyxxy
Jun 29, 2016 6:55 PM CST
Here's the registry for Billbergia Pink Lemonade, Brenden. Lots of pictures of it in color. It's been registered since 1994.

http://registry.bsi.org/index.php?fields=&id=1041&search=hal...
Elaine

"Success is stumbling from failure to failure with no loss of enthusiasm." –Winston Churchill
Name: Brenden Reinhart
Flushing Michigan (Zone 6b)
Image
bhart90
Jun 30, 2016 5:57 AM CST
dyzzypyxxy said:Here's the registry for Billbergia Pink Lemonade, Brenden. Lots of pictures of it in color. It's been registered since 1994.

http://registry.bsi.org/index.php?fields=&id=1041&search=hal...


That's his all right nice picture ty
Brenden
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
Charter ATP Member Spiders! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Pennsylvania Greenhouse Cactus and Succulents
Forum moderator I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Photo Contest Winner: 2014 Ponds Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Region: New Jersey
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Ursula
Jun 30, 2016 6:27 AM CST

Moderator

We are looking at a Cultivar which is registered, it is not patented.
Name: Alice
Saint Helena Island, SC (Zone 9a)
Charter ATP Member Hummingbirder Garden Photography Container Gardener Butterflies Bromeliad
Birds Ponds Region: South Carolina Tropicals
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ardesia
Jun 30, 2016 6:38 AM CST
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/plant-patents.html

Also, it helps to have a relationship with a big university with research facilities where the genetics and stability can be well studied and documented.
Minds are like parachutes; they work better when they are open.

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