Roses forum: Roses in the pots

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Name: Molly McKinley
Florida Tundra
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MollyMc
Jul 4, 2016 11:56 AM CST
I have half a dozen roses I bought this year....still in the pots. One is Queen Elizabeth, large enough not to worry. This one I just didn't get planted out as I didn't know where I wanted to put it.

The other 5 I didn't want to plant out because I thought they were too small and would get lost and forgotten by me. They are growing a bit now, as much as they can being in gallon pots. But I do want to plant them this year. I fear coming into the hottest part of the summer, I should wait, for no known reason to me though. Some of these have even put out some blooms.

What are your thoughts on when to plant them.

A friend of mine came over and dug up one of my Mr Lincoln's in late May. She planted it at her house, then moved it within a day or two to a spot that had more shade (don't know why she did this) Now it looks to be dead. Did this come from transplanting at the wrong time of year? Which is why I ask the question at the top of this entry.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Jul 4, 2016 12:43 PM CST

Moderator

I think you should wait, especially if they're not dying in the pots. I try to transplant during our rainy season, so that plants will get watered adequately after they've been moved. I occasionally have to move plants in the heat of summer, but then I have to water them once or twice a day until they've adapted to their new spot. The Mister Lincoln probably suffered because it had to go through transplant shock twice in just a few days. Or maybe it wasn't watered enough after each move.
Name: Molly McKinley
Florida Tundra
Charter ATP Member Roses Xeriscape Ponds Butterflies
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MollyMc
Jul 4, 2016 1:08 PM CST
Zuzu, I'm not sure if I am being talked into it or out of it. We are in our rainy season now. Almost every day or night it rains. But being Florida, it's certainly hot. For now the roses haven't gone in to heat dormancy because most are blooming now.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Jul 4, 2016 1:56 PM CST

Moderator

Okay, now I'm not sure whether I'm talking you into it or out of it. Big Grin Heat is bad for transplants, but rain is good. I'd wait until fall.
Name: Molly McKinley
Florida Tundra
Charter ATP Member Roses Xeriscape Ponds Butterflies
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MollyMc
Jul 4, 2016 2:07 PM CST
I can't do anything but agree with you right now. I took a walk outside, 15 minutes tops. 96, feels like 107. I came back in to the a/c and may just take a nap.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Jul 5, 2016 1:16 PM CST
I have transplanted roses in arid triple digit temps. I know people who have transplanted them in desert climates in mid-summer. In other words, it's doable.

The fact that you are in your rainy season really makes it easier than it would be for me doing it in my dry summer season because the biggest problem for me is having the canes dry out.

However, I have never grown roses in a humid climate, so I can only guess that your issues are completely different than mine.

Generally, when we transplant a rose or put a rose in the ground, we damage the feeder roots and we are told to water the plant daily because the root system is inefficient until the rose grows new feeder roots. If the soil is too wet, those new feeder roots will rot and the rose will not take off. It's not the heat that is going to kill the rose, it's the inefficient root system that is going to cause the rose to fail. So, if you think your soil will be too wet to plant it out now and you think the roses are too stressed by being in gallon sized containers, maybe the best solution is to pot them up to larger containers and give them more room for their roots until you think it's a better time to plant them out into the garden.

I know that means handling them twice, but it really is a judgment call on your part because you know your climate and your soil conditions.

I had one rose this year that I kept too long in a container that was too small before getting it planted out because every spot I thought I wanted to plant it ended up having severe root competition. I should have potted the rose up and waited until fall to plant it out. Unfortunately, my high summer temps arrived two weeks early and I had just gotten the plant into the ground. I've had to give that rose a LOT of TLC and it's doing fine even in triple digit temps, but I am watching it closely. I don't have to worry about the soil being too wet or about drainage, but I do have to make certain that the top growth doesn't fry because of the low humidity in my garden and the root system is inefficient at this stage.

In both cases, it's all about how the roots are developing as the plant is settling in to its new location, not about the heat.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
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CindiKS
Jul 5, 2016 1:28 PM CST
I have 30 or so roses in pots at the moment, and they seem to be doing very well. Some were body bag roses that I wanted to quarantine, and others were bare root purchases from late season sales at good online nurseries. A few were purchased as potted plants already blooming. Of all, I think the fully grown ones need to go in the ground SOON. They are looking stressed from heat, and maybe are getting a bit root bound. In the past, I've had trouble with the pots getting too hot, but this year, I placed them in among plants in flower beds so the sun wasn't hitting the sides of the pot directly. We are getting rain and humidity that normally we don't see this time of year, so it does feel like Florida here! My thinking is usually to get plants into the ground asap because they need to be established to make it through winter. You don't have those worries there. In a pot, you do have the option to move a plant into a more protected site if it needs it, and you have better control over water and nutrients. Those points might sway me if I were in your shoes.
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Name: Andi
Pocono Mountains, PA (Zone 6a)
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GardenQuilts
Jul 5, 2016 2:42 PM CST
I would wait.... for my own sake as much as the rose. Summer in Florida is too hot and humid for me.

My roses sulk in the PA summer heat and humidity. I have killed roses moving them in the summer ... a combination of inexperience and bad timing. I plant and move roses in the spring in PA. IMO plants don't have time to get established before winter if I plant in fall in this climate.

I am not sure if roses go dormant during FLA summers. I would wait until fall .... At least until after the rainy season. This isn't like California rain ... thus is rain so hard you can't see ten feet away, every afternoon, all season. The twin lasts about an hour, but the humidity never ends. You don't have to worry about the plants getting established before the brutal winter like I do, but you may have other worries.

Many southern rose gardeners buy roses on Fortunata root stock .... hope I spelled it right, pecking away on the phone.

You may want to ask on the Southern gardening forum if a southern gardener doesn't pop in with advice.
Name: Molly McKinley
Florida Tundra
Charter ATP Member Roses Xeriscape Ponds Butterflies
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MollyMc
Jul 5, 2016 4:28 PM CST
Thank you all for you advice on this issue. I will have to check the roots on the smaller ones in the pots to see if they are getting root bound for starters and if that's the case, I may have to upsize their pots and move them where the pots don't get so hot.

From watching my roses, they do seem to go into a bit of dormancy (from blooming) during the hottest part of the summer, then when the night temps go down a bit, probably in late September, they come back to bloom until first frost (mid-November).

Our ground does not freeze here so that's a worry I don't have to deal with. As for putting them in the ground, like yesterday, if it's too hot for me, that's a good rule of thumb. August is the hottest month of the year for us, so September looks like a good transplant date. Also, my work slows down after August which gives me more time to baby my roses.
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Jul 5, 2016 4:31 PM CST
With that kind of rain, Andi, the soil would be saturated, so again, it's not the heat that causes the problem, but that the plant cannot establish its root system.

The only analogy I can come up with when I talk about the root system of a plant is to think of it as kind of like a vital body part. The roots take the energy produced by photosynthesis to feed the plant and they also send moisture up to the upper parts of the plant to hydrate it so that the leaves can function properly. If the root system is not completely functioning for any reason, then the plant will be stressed.

So, if a plant is root bound, that can cause stress. If it is water logged so it can't grow what I am calling new feeder roots ... those are the tiny roots that absorb moisture and nutrients from the soil and feed the rest of the plant ... the plant is stressed. If the soil is too dry and the roots can't grow, the plant will be stressed. If there is major root competition ... more stress.

We tend to think most of the plant failures are caused by the things we can see and feel, but often it's what is happening under the soil when we first plant a rose that has the biggest impact on its health and survival.

It's always a judgement call that the gardener has to make depending on the condition of the plant in the pot and the climate he or she is gardening in and what is happening in that climate in a given year.
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Molly McKinley
Florida Tundra
Charter ATP Member Roses Xeriscape Ponds Butterflies
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MollyMc
Jul 5, 2016 4:36 PM CST
Lyn, thank you for your valuable advice.

I just want to interject this, about this: I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer. Around here.....no they don't....none of it. But I will say, I would rather pull weeds than dust the house. Hilarious!
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Jul 5, 2016 6:37 PM CST
Rolling on the floor laughing Rolling on the floor laughing

Good luck with your roses .... Smiling
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.
Name: Cindi
Wichita, Kansas (Zone 7a)
Charter ATP Member Plant and/or Seed Trader Permaculture Roses Ponds Peonies
Lilies Irises Daylilies Dog Lover Beekeeper Garden Ideas: Master Level
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CindiKS
Jul 6, 2016 1:12 PM CST
Sighing! Crying I have weeds AND dust. Sighing! I'm tackling the weeds first because nice yard makes me happier than clean house, and if I don't get to the weeds soon, I'll have an impossible task once the ground dries out.
Sticking tongue out
Remember that children, marriages, and flower gardens reflect the kind of care they get.
H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
Name: Porkpal
Richmond, TX
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Keeper of Poultry Farmer Roses Raises cows
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porkpal
Jul 6, 2016 1:40 PM CST
On the wildflower forum there is a discussion concerning how weeds are a normal, even beneficial part of nature. Surly the same logic can be applied to house dust.
Porkpal
Name: Lyn
Weaverville, California (Zone 8a)
Garden Ideas: Level 1 Garden Sages Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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RoseBlush1
Jul 6, 2016 4:14 PM CST
Well, there is one of me. I either get the weeding done or the dusting done. So, since I'd rather be outside, I'd rather weed than dust, but when the triple digit temps hit, that's when I do my spring cleaning and I do the garden work in the cool hours and the house work in the heat of the day.

It's always something ... Hilarious!
I'd rather weed than dust ... the weeds stay gone longer.

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