Daylilies forum: Is this a proliferation?

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Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
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cybersix
Jul 5, 2016 7:58 AM CST
I found a very strange scape.. it looks like dividing really close to the base.
Is it a prolif or some other kind of crazy growth?

Thumb of 2016-07-05/cybersix/496eaa
Thumb of 2016-07-05/cybersix/82d8f1
Thumb of 2016-07-05/cybersix/16a10e

Thank You!
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com
Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
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cybersix
Jul 6, 2016 3:30 AM CST
Cheked better this morning, ny DLs are all crowded and it's a bit hard to look well at everything. There's a small fan on the right part of that scape, the one that seems "attached" and white at the end. I'm so thrilled with proliferation!
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jul 7, 2016 11:12 AM CST
So I went out in the garden this morning to harvest some proliferations. I would have much preferred to leave them on the scapes longer , but the scapes were turning brown and becoming an eyesore. I had one scape that had died completely and the proliferation on it had also dried up and died. So that prompted me to go ahead and harvest many of the proliferations. I am just hoping they they are developed enough to continue to grow and make a nice fan or fans. I had very few cultivars that had grown proliferations but 'Lady Neva' out did herself with them. I had a NOID that was just a proliferation making machine, it was just loaded with proliferations.
Here is the NOID clump after being cleared of scapes and dead leaves.
Thumb of 2016-07-07/Seedfork/2b11da
Here is a photo of the scapes and prolifs that came off of that one clump.
Thumb of 2016-07-07/Seedfork/99b548
I just saved the largest ones, and I did not bother to pot them up. I just pushed them down into the bog soil with my thumb and hope they will grow.
Thumb of 2016-07-07/Seedfork/32df81
The bloom on that NOID this morning.
Thumb of 2016-07-07/Seedfork/1c4277
I also had one other NOID I wanted to save a prolif. that was growing. I did pot it up.
Here are two pots of prolif. off of 'Lady Neva' notice that the one cluster of prolifs. will by itself make a nice little clump when it matures.
Thumb of 2016-07-07/Seedfork/860360
This is a photo of all the prolifs. I potted up this morning.

Thumb of 2016-07-07/Seedfork/a567c1

[Last edited by Seedfork - Jul 7, 2016 11:15 AM (+)]
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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jul 7, 2016 11:45 AM CST
I was wanting to ask this question and I guess this is as good a place as any, What is your opinion(anyone's) about the amount of energy prolifs draw from a plant. I know I have read that seed pods drain the energy from a plant, but I have seen nothing about the effect of prolifs on the mother plant. I was thinking as I harvested all those scapes and prolifs that it would be a great relief for the plant, yet I have read that the plant actually draws energy from the scape? Can that be correct?
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
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sooby
Jul 7, 2016 12:43 PM CST
It would depend on when the prolif leaves start photosynthesizing. If they are photosynthesizing they are not a using energy but are making it. Ditto for the scapes if they are actually photosynthesizing. Anything that's not green would not be photosynthesizing, however.
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jul 7, 2016 1:10 PM CST
How is it determined when the scapes and leaves are actually photosynthesizing? Also, some of the scapes with prolifs were also supporting seed pods. So how much difference would that make?
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Jul 7, 2016 1:22 PM CST
I should clarify that they'd be making it and using it, presumably. To know exactly what's going on would require some testing. I don't know if there's a way of roughly testing this without lab equipment. Maybe Maurice has some ideas @admmad
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jul 7, 2016 2:01 PM CST
Well, I am going to keep an eye on that clump and see if if makes a miraculous recovery or just continues to grow normally, or if it declines. I suppose that will give me some indication of if the scapes were draining the plant of any energy or not.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Jul 7, 2016 2:19 PM CST
If there's a perceptible change it wouldn't necessarily be related to draining energy but could be to do with the scape and prolif removal changing the way the plant behaves. That would depend on how much influence a scape with a prolif has on the behaviour of the main plant, for example if its existence prevents new fans from growing at the base and removal releases them to grow.
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Jul 7, 2016 2:20 PM CST
I expect that both the proliferations and the scape are photosynthesizing from the start. Unfortunately the question is whether they are synthesizing enough to balance the amount of any resources they are using that are supplied by the crown/original fan.

We might compare, at least theoretically, the behaviour of the plant with a scape that say has had all its buds eaten, a scape with only proliferations and a rhizome with a fan at its end. A scape that has had its buds eaten seems to be aborted relatively quickly. A scape with proliferations seems to last a relatively long time. A rhizome with a fan at its end presumably lasts a very long time. The fan on the end of the rhizome presumably makes little demand on the resources of the original crown and becomes independent relatively quickly. A scape with proliferations presumably makes less demand on the resources of the original crown. A scape that has lost its buds presumably does not supply enough resources to the crown to balance its potential dangers (easier disease/pest entry perhaps).
Maurice
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jul 7, 2016 2:44 PM CST
So it seems the opposite of what I was thinking. I was thinking the more and the larger the proliferations the larger the drain on the plant, but it appears the large proliferations are pretty much taking care of themselves and are not actually draining the plant (crown/original plant).
Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
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cybersix
Jul 7, 2016 2:54 PM CST
Thank you Larry, those are really many proliferations! They look good! Where do you cut to pot them?
Many thanks Sue and Maurice for such precious informations and insights, as always!
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jul 7, 2016 2:58 PM CST
I like to cut mine according to the size of the proliferation. I like to leave just enough above the proliferation to allow me to push it down into the soil with my thumb. The larger the proliferation the more it needs to be stabilized when potting so a small prolif might just have an inch or two left of the scape on the bottom, but a large prolif might new two to three inches to stabilize it good in the soil.
Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
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cybersix
Jul 7, 2016 3:22 PM CST
Thank you, that's what I couldn't understand, if it needed a bit of scape or not! The one in my first post.. it looks different, it looks as a continuum of the scape... how do I cut that? Thank You!
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
Seedfork
Jul 7, 2016 3:46 PM CST
The best I can tell looking at the photo, you proliferation is just low down on the scape. I had a couple like that today. If I am seeking it correctly, when you cut it, for the upper cut just cut about a half inch above the proliferation (for a thumb placement), but if you are not planning on having to push the proliferation into the soil, just cut it even with the proliferation. For the lower cut there still looks like an inch of so below the proliferation to soil level, and part of if will be even lower, so just cut it as low as you can. It might even snap off below the soil level. You want enough of the scape to act like an anchor and keep the plant upright when it is potted.
[Last edited by Seedfork - Jul 7, 2016 3:51 PM (+)]
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Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
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cybersix
Jul 8, 2016 9:23 AM CST
Larry, the prolif doesn't have any part of the scape above her growing point.
For now I can't see any roots, while the other I have like yours in the middle of a scape is showing the first little root. I wnat to pot them because if they will survive they will be a gift. I have a third one on another plant born from a bract but it's still young!
here are three pics from three sides

on the left there was a scape I cut today because it was dry
Thumb of 2016-07-08/cybersix/880ba4

Thumb of 2016-07-08/cybersix/4d248e

Thumb of 2016-07-08/cybersix/4bb090

Thank you, and sorry.. I can be dense sometimes
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com
[Last edited by cybersix - Jul 8, 2016 9:36 AM (+)]
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Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
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Seedfork
Jul 8, 2016 9:37 AM CST
I think you are doing the right thing by leaving them on the plant as long as you can. No problem with the prolif not having any scape above it, it won't matter a bit.
Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
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cybersix
Jul 8, 2016 9:38 AM CST
I added the pictures after your reply, I think! Thanks again!
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com
Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
Love daylilies and making candles!
Daylilies Cat Lover Region: Europe Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Level 1
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cybersix
Jul 14, 2016 2:01 AM CST
Please help... usual panic attack!!
Where do I cut it?
I want to pot it. One question, the piece of scape that maybe left attached to it doesn't rot?
Many thanks!

Thumb of 2016-07-14/cybersix/601c85

Thank You!
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com
Name: Larry
Enterprise, Al. 36330 (Zone 8b)
Region: Alabama Composter Garden Photography Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Identifier Celebrating Gardening: 2015
Image
Seedfork
Jul 14, 2016 5:39 AM CST
How long is that scape from the prolif to the soil? Just judging from the photo I would cut the scape at soil level. Let me ask, where you think you should cut it and why you think you should cut it there?
[Last edited by Seedfork - Jul 14, 2016 5:40 AM (+)]
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