Sue, sorry for misunderstanding. The seeds of citrina are the less succesfull. Other seeds gave good result. I had problems germinating another diploids cross.

Sue - When sowing after being in the refrigerator for months (2 months or longer), most sprouted within 2 weeks. I had an occasional one sprout a month or more later, but that was rare. Most seeds sprouted together within the first 14 days I sowed them. I grow all kinds of crosses ... tets and dips. The results were pretty much the same. My germination rate was at least 80% on most crosses of 5+ seeds. Some seeds were my own crosses, some I acquired.

It works for me. The only time I did not see sprouts was with seeds that were not viable. And that was confirmed by the person on the LA who sold them to me. He had a problem with quite a few of his auctions. (I don't know what the real issue was, but many buyers got no germination from his seeds.) I let the seeds stay in the pots for 6 months before tossing the soil into the garden beds. They never sprouted, so I do believe there was a problem with those seeds.

I do water my seeds/seedlings with H2O2 added to the water. It helps prevent root rot (damping off) in the young seedlings. And I don't over-water. It's been very successful, which is why I have so many seedlings. Now from there into the beds, I tend to lose seedlings. Not right away, but usually the summer heat here does the less hardy ones in within a year or two. Those that survive do very well here in Florida. I believe it to be kind of trial and error of cultivar genes.

OK, so where I was going with that is that if the next ones don't respond to the peroxide by speeding up, you are no further ahead. If you can get them stratified without molding then in five or six weeks you have seedlings. So starting them now versus taking a month to stratify is not guaranteed to save time, you could still have seedlings in September, or germinating even later than that. So it's a gamble either way.

Something I noticed when I compared was that the stratified ones grew faster than the non-stratified. I haven't followed up on that to see if it was just coincidence.

Becky, if under your conditions daylily seeds do not have seed dormancy, they will germinate quickly whether you refrigerate them or not.

Well, I see another seed sprouted today in the cup that had only 1 sprout so far. Still no germination in the other 4 cups. So some are slowly germinating, but I find it interesting that only those 2 cups (crosses) have been germinating. Not the other 4 cups. I will be watching to see how long it takes to get sprouts from the 4 cups.

I understand what you are saying about not saving time. Either way, those seeds could take up to 6 weeks or longer to germinate without seed stratification.

Sue, I am going to try again with some seeds of my crosses, but they won't be ready before next month I think. Pods on Stella de Oro are one moth old and still not ready.
I am so doubtful because every seed is a precious gift and losing them makes me feel bad. I know it's stupid, but the seeds coming from AHS are not easily replaced.

I will try your method and be careful about not wetting vermiculite too much.

The other thing that stopped my trials is the lack of space. But I am planning to rearrange the garden, so some spot will be free after the end of the blooming period. I will also try winter sowing some seeds. I'd need more room and more light inside but this house is the best we can do for now, so I am procrastinating a lot!

Have you had more trouble with the AHS seeds than your own, or is it about equal?

I can't really say, my seeds were really a small number. But all germinated. What I noticed with AHS seeds is this difference between dips and tets. The tets germinate almost 100% and the young seedling have nice leaves. The dips germinated at about 10% and the only two sees that did (citrina cross and the other is butterscotch ruffle x after the fall) have two ridicoulus thin leaves.
All have been started in the same day.

Mine were only tets. This year I have dips crosses on my stella so there's enough material to see if there's a scheme or if it was just a coincidence.

If the tets germinated 100% that answers my question. I was wondering if something might have happened in the mail (too hot, too cold, security check for example).

The AHS seeds would most likely be from different sources, climates, storage methods etc. that could explain differences.

In theory a citrina cross is more likely to have seed dormancy because it's a species. Citrina also has very narrow leaves as an adult.

What was the question? I think I got lost in all this!
So, it's normal for citrina having seed dormancy and thinner leaves. Noted. So the next experiment will involve these seeds for sure.
But I had the same happening (more or less) with the other dip cross!

Knowing I will get rid of some plant gave me a new energy, so I will try to germinate more seeds. Won't look in the bag in the fridge, promise!

@cybersix I think the Butterscotch Ruffles x After The Fall seeds were ones I donated to the ISB. They were harvested last year and after drying for a few days, refrigerated until I sent them in.

I think I have a few more seeds left so I can try to germinate them too. I also had problems germinating seeds but wintersowing works! Almost 100%! I suspect you are keeping the seeds too wet. That was my problem too. I started some seeds a month ago in germinating mix and got great germination by only bottom watering twice, removing standing water once the media was wet & mostly just misting the top of the mix daily. Once one seedling sprouted the little cup it was in went outside and the rest of the seeds sprouted fine (very little direct sun outside) over about 2 weeks.

bxncbx said:@cybersix I think the Butterscotch Ruffles x After The Fall seeds were ones I donated to the ISB. They were harvested last year and after drying for a few days, refrigerated until I sent them in.

I think I have a few more seeds left so I can try to germinate them too. I also had problems germinating seeds but wintersowing works! Almost 100%! I suspect you are keeping the seeds too wet. That was my problem too. I started some seeds a month ago in germinating mix and got great germination by only bottom watering twice, removing standing water once the media was wet & mostly just misting the top of the mix daily. Once one seedling sprouted the little cup it was in went outside and the rest of the seeds sprouted fine (very little direct sun outside) over about 2 weeks.

Elena, thank you very much! So generous of you! As I wrote before, these seeds to me are so precious that my heart almost breaks when I see they don't make it.
Thank for suggestions, my hand is still heavy with water I need to learn that less is better.
I will sure winter sow some, now I need to see it with my eyes! Do you put them in the ground or in pots?

I use gallon water jugs but being as you are in Europe you probably don't have them. You can use 2L bottles too. You are basically creating a mini-greenhouse for them. Look at the wintersowing forum because that's where I learned to do it. And don't overwater that media either or the seeds will rot too! I don't put them in the ground because the squirrels will eat them. They sometimes steal pods to eat the seeds.

Sue, I think I want to store my seed more than germinate them quickly. Getting my head together, I am really not unhappy when they germinate at different times when I sow.

I just really need to store till I am ready to plant. I haven't tried to dry first yet. Mainly because the fur babies are intrigued by anything I do - especially after I have left.

But I will try this and then just store in ziplocks in the crisper for a later date and see how I go. Many thanks for your advice.

One thing I can't really understand. Should I dry seeds if I want to stratify them already or it's not necessary?

if you don't dry them somewhat they tend to mold. I never moist stratify DL seeds the only seeds I cold stratify with moisture is things like fruit and nut seeds with hard seed coats. I heard only evergreen DL's do well without any cold temps prior to planting but I put them in the fridge also just for the heck of it.

Elena, we don't have any critters here, there's only one cat that moves at night and leaves some smelling trace here and there. I live in a kind of horizontal condo, we have woods near but houses are mainly on the streets so until now I never noticed any critters signs.

Glen, I have 5 nice fur babies too, I have a shelf in the kitchen they can't reach so there all my experiments go.

Daniel, if I damp chill the seeds they will have humidity, so that's why I can't see if I have to dry them anyway before damp chilling or not. What do you do with your seeds?

all!

You can dry them for storage so they don't mold, but to stratify they have to have enough internal moisure for the chilling to work. When you put the dry seeds in damp vermiculite the moisture enters the seed through the seed coat and rehydrates the seed.

If you want to stratify immediately without storing first you don't need to dry them first.

If you don't want to stratify, just plant them without. It's not a requirement it's just to avoid having to wait up to several months for germination if they have seed dormancy.

Thank you Sue!
I will experiment a bit!

Sue, you are just wonderful with your help.