Plant Database forum: More on the subject of non-cultivar top-level plants

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Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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dave
Oct 7, 2011 4:15 PM CST

Garden.org Admin

This week I have done a lot of work in preparing the database to accept entries for plants that are not cultivars (but whose genus/species does have cultivars). I loosely refer to this as a "type of plant" with one entry being the parent entry for this type.

For example, we will soon have a generic "Rose" entry in the database, in which we can write paragraphs of information, add un-identified photos of roses to, and things like that.

As an added bonus, I have set this system up so that I can set the databox information for that parent plant, and it will then retroactively apply all those data fields for all cultivars that match that plant.

Continuing with the Roses example, per Zuzu's and Calif_Sue's instructions, I have marked the Rose entry with:

Plant Habit: Shrub
Life cycle: Perennial
Sun Requirements: Full Sun
Leaves: Deciduous
Flowers: Showy
Uses: Attracts Bees

And that then applied those fields to all the other Roses. Moreover, when a new rose is added, it automatically inherits these data fields.

I have already done this for Daylilies, Irises, Hostas, Roses, Tomatoes, Clematis, Crepe Myrtles and Sunflowers.

I plan to do this for several other several other types of plants. If you are curious, the list is below. The number to the left is how many cultivars belong to that type of plant:

7243 Hibiscus rosa-sinensis (Tropical Hibiscus)
118 Hibiscus syriacus (Rose of Sharon)
110 Hibiscus moscheutos (Hardy Hibiscus)
22 Hibiscus

1145 Epiphyllum (Orchid Cactus)
813 Nymphaea (Water Lily)
782 Saintpaulia (African Violet)

468 Solenostemon scutellarioides (Coleus)
7 Solenostemon (Hybrid Coleus)

2111 Phaseolus vulgaris (Bean)
141 Vigna unguiculata (Cowpea)

1875 Capsicum annuum (Pepper)
814 Citrullus lanatus (Watermelon)
788 Solanum tuberosum (Potato)
226 Solanum melongena (Eggplant)

622 Cucurbita pepo
196 Cucurbita maxima
71 Cucurbita moschata
19 Cucurbita mixta
8 Cucurbita pepo var. ovifera


591 Cucumis sativus (Cucumber and melons?)
528 Cucumis melo (Netted cantaloupe?)
220 Cucumis melo var. inodorus
338 Pisum sativum (Peas)
361 Lactuca sativa (Lettuce)
86 Spinacia oleracea (Spinach)

497 Canna x generalis (Canna)

595 Dahlia (Dahlia)
550 Lilium (Lilies)
485 Tulipa (Tulips)
437 Narcissus (Daffodils)

454 Malus x domestica (Apples)
230 Malus (Various)
19 Malus pumila (Wild apple?)

303 Prunus persica (Peach)
144 Prunus persica var. nucipersica (Nectarine)
39 Prunus armeniaca (Apricot)

## Each of Prunus should be separate parents.
32 Prunus avium (Cherry)
24 Prunus domestica (Plum)
19 Prunus salicina (Chinese Plum or Japanese Plum)
16 Prunus laurocerasus (Cherry Laurel)
11 Prunus serrulata (Japanese Cherry)
11 Prunus armeniaca x domestica (Pluot)
10 Prunus cerasifera (Cherry Plum)
8 Prunus cerasus (Sour Cherry)
6 Prunus padus (Bird Cherry)
18 Prunus (Various?)

451 Fragaria x ananassa (Strawberry)
15 Fragaria
8 Fragaria vesca

449 Echinopsis (Cactus)

43 Zea mays var. indurata (Flint)
49 Zea mays var. amylacea (Flour)
59 Zea mays var. everta (Popcorn)
98 Zea mays var. indentata (Dent)
192 Zea mays (Mixed corn types)
293 Zea mays var. rugosa (Sweet Corn)

242 Daucus carota
196 Capsicum chinense
169 Brassica oleracea var. botrytis
164 Vicia faba
162 Brassica oleracea
156 Raphanus sativus

440 Allium cepa (Onion)
95 Allium porrum (Leek)
16 Allium fistulosum (Bunching Onion)
12 Allium sativum (Garlic)

408 Brassica oleracea var. capitata
396 Sempervivum

349 Rhododendron

304 Acer palmatum
297 Plumeria rubra
241 Hydrangea macrophylla
230 Heuchera
224 Brugmansia
175 Begonia
170 Corylus avellana
169 Carya illinoinensis
144 Pelargonium x hortorum
129 Capsicum baccatum var. pendulum
121 Fuchsia
120 Apium graveolens var. dulce
117 Petunia
114 Camellia japonica
110 Lagenaria siceraria
105 Hippeastrum
102 Phaseolus lunatus
102 Gladiolus x hortulanus
100 Viola x wittrockiana

If anybody reading this sees a plant type in that list that they would like to adopt and help me determine what data fields are appropriate and common to all cultivars in that type of plant, I would love your help!
Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
Oct 7, 2011 4:17 PM CST
Thumbs up Thumbs up Thumbs up Wonderful!!
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Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 7, 2011 5:33 PM CST
Thumbs up
Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Tomato Heads I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Roses Hummingbirder
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Newyorkrita
Oct 7, 2011 10:09 PM CST
This is fabulous, just fabulous. I already put in batches of mixed roses in rose pictures.


How about Dafodils? I have a bunch of pictures of massed of mixed daffs from this spring. I bought the Scheepers Long Trumpet collection. They looked great in bloom but there are many different unidenfied varieties in the same shot.
[Last edited by Newyorkrita - Oct 7, 2011 5:24 PM (+)]
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Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
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plantladylin
Oct 7, 2011 10:13 PM CST
Oh wow Rita ... I want to live in your garden! Absolutely gorgeous Roses ... I bet the fragrance is amazing!
~ Eat, Sleep .... Play in the dirt ~
Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Tomato Heads I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Roses Hummingbirder
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Newyorkrita
Oct 7, 2011 10:23 PM CST
Not all of them are fragrant but enough of them are so that it sure does smell like a rose garden. I was really happy with the generic "Rose" catagory because those pictures can't be used for a single rose variety as they are just jumbled together and taken in gardenbed shots.
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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dave
Oct 8, 2011 6:13 AM CST

Garden.org Admin

Newyorkrita said:How about Dafodils?


Yes, daffodils are indeed in that list. Smiling
Name: Michele Roth
N.E. Indiana - Zone 5b
I'm always on my way out the door..
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Forum moderator Garden Sages Garden Ideas: Master Level Dog Lover Cottage Gardener
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chelle
Oct 8, 2011 6:58 AM CST
I'm very happy to see some of those entries!

Did I miss zinnias?

I'd like to add those if possible.
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Name: Lee Anne Stark
Brockville, Ontario, Canada (Zone 5a)
Perpetually happy!
Forum moderator Tip Photographer I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Critters Allowed Cottage Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Keeps Goats Keeper of Poultry Frogs and Toads Charter ATP Member Region: Canadian
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threegardeners
Oct 8, 2011 7:41 AM CST
Hoyas?
Name: Myriam
Ghent, Belgium (Zone 8a)
Charter ATP Member Ferns Native Plants and Wildflowers Cat Lover Birds Bee Lover
Organic Gardener I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Frogs and Toads Plant Identifier
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bonitin
Oct 8, 2011 7:52 AM CST
Cyclamen? Smiling
Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Tomato Heads I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Roses Hummingbirder
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Newyorkrita
Oct 8, 2011 9:59 AM CST
Oh, goody. Somehow in spite of looking I missed the daffs on the list. I see them now and just checked the database and found were my pictures should be entered. Thumbs up
Name: Hetty
Sunny Naples, Florida (Zone 10a)
Plumerias Photo Contest Winner: 2015 Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Plant Database Moderator
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Dutchlady1
Oct 8, 2011 10:33 AM CST
I'll be happy to take on Plumeria rubra

Dave - just curious - when do you sleep? Hilarious!
Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Tomato Heads I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Roses Hummingbirder
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Newyorkrita
Oct 8, 2011 12:52 PM CST
I see a generic entry under "Iris" but my iris are Tall Beared Iris. I looked for a generic under beared iris but didn't see one. Am I missing it? There are many forms of iris but at least with bearded iris one can always recognize the class by the beards on the blooms.

How about just plain no id Siberian iris?
[Last edited by Newyorkrita - Oct 8, 2011 8:10 AM (+)]
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Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Tomato Heads I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Roses Hummingbirder
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Newyorkrita
Oct 8, 2011 1:06 PM CST
How about one for Azaleas? I have lots of old and I mean old Azealas growing here that never were id by anything more than color. Like red ones or white blooming ones.
Name: Rita
North Shore, Long Island, NY
Zone 6B
Charter ATP Member Seed Starter Tomato Heads I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Vegetable Grower Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge)
Birds Garden Ideas: Master Level Butterflies Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Roses Hummingbirder
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Newyorkrita
Oct 8, 2011 1:11 PM CST
Generic Clematis? Most of my clems have NO IDS.

Also many no ID Honeysuckle vines and french lilacs.
[Last edited by Newyorkrita - Oct 8, 2011 8:15 AM (+)]
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Name: Juli
(Zone 5b)
Region: United States of America Charter ATP Member Cottage Gardener Daylilies Garden Photography Enjoys or suffers cold winters
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daylily
Oct 8, 2011 3:41 PM CST
There are probably 65,000 named Daylily cultivars. Not sure if any other plant has that many.

I am not sure I like the idea of people uploading lots of photos of NoID daylilies. I wrote to Sue to see if that is what we have in mind for the Daylily section, but have not heard back from her yet. With the hundreds of thousands of seedlings grown each year, plus everyone has a few NoID, the general section could quickly overtake the named ones, especially if people are only uploading to get acorns. Sue says she has 100 Daylily images to go through per day now. I don't know how we would moderate a general section with NoIDs being uploaded.

If the general section had garden shots of using daylilies in perennial beds, or the species, I think that would be OK.
Name: Lynn
Dallas, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level Sempervivums
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valleylynn
Oct 8, 2011 5:20 PM CST
How about sempervivum?
Sedum?
Rosularia
Orostachys
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
Region: California Plant Database Moderator Roses Irises Clematis Garden Photography
Cottage Gardener Keeper of Poultry Hummingbirder Bee Lover Butterflies Birds
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Calif_Sue
Oct 8, 2011 9:03 PM CST

Plants Admin

Actually Juli, Dave just added 4,226 new daylilies for a total of 70,930.

I have been talking to Zuzu about the generic rose entry and one thing we thought we'd like to do is add some general info like photos and descriptions of different rose classes and styles like singles, semi-doubles, full doubles, floribundas, hybrid tea shaped blooms, etc. and then just a few shots of them in landscapes and mixed beds. She was thinking that "mystery roses might not belong on this kind of page. When you look up "rose" in the encyclopedia, you won't see mystery roses, but you will see rose landscape scenes like Rita's, and this is supposed to be like an encyclopedia page." We may edit a few of hers down so we can add a few other images, not sure yet.

We can do something like that with daylilies. A few examples of the different forms and bloom traits, the species and the newest bloom styles and some daylilies in landscape shots would round it out.
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Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Procrastinator Birds Butterflies Bee Lover Hummingbirder Container Gardener
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plantladylin
Oct 9, 2011 6:51 AM CST
Sue: I really like that idea of having descriptions for different classes of roses ... very helpful to those of us who don't know roses! I was hoping that every genus of plants could have something like that at the very top of the page, just a little general information about plant growth habit, it's native region etc.
~ Eat, Sleep .... Play in the dirt ~
Name: Dave Whitinger
Jacksonville, Texas (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Region: Texas Master Gardener: Texas Permaculture Raises cows I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
Garden Ideas: Master Level Beekeeper Garden Sages Avid Green Pages Reviewer Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier
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dave
Oct 9, 2011 8:22 AM CST

Garden.org Admin

Sue, you've got a good idea there and I'll be making it workable to do just that.

My thinking is that the moderator of the entry will be able to add sections of information, and populate each section with whatever you want.

So, you could have a section at the top called "Introduction" in which you can introduce the plant. You could then create a section called "History" in which you talk about the history of Roses. And on and on until you've got everything in there you want.

I plan to make it so that you can add photos into it, just like a post in the threads here.

But the main point will be that it will be very flexible, since so many different kinds of plants will need different kinds of sections of information.

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