Daylilies forum: self-pollinated tetraploids

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Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Jul 22, 2016 3:18 PM CST
I am looking for introduced tetraploids that have been successfully self-pollinated (the seedlings from the self-pollinations raised to flowering). Any one know of any?
Maurice
Name: Sabrina
Italy, Brescia (Zone 8b)
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cybersix
Jul 22, 2016 3:29 PM CST
Maurice, I'm not sure I understood well, but I was just looking at this:
Daylily (Hemerocallis 'Bonibrae Stairway to Heaven')

Is it something like this you were looking for?
Sabrina, North Italy
My blog: http://hemerocallisblog.com
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Jul 22, 2016 3:54 PM CST
@cybersix Yes, it is. Thank you. Sadly I think it is too new and therefore it is too expensive to use for my experimental tests.
Maurice
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
Jul 22, 2016 5:11 PM CST
I would say so, $150 for a single fan!
Name: Char
Vermont (Zone 4b)
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Char
Jul 22, 2016 5:31 PM CST

Moderator

Maurice, Rich Howard does some self crosses. I don't know if he has grown any out and would have seedlings you might be able to use. Could be worth a try to ask him.
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Jul 22, 2016 5:52 PM CST
@char Thank you. I have sent off an email.
Maurice
Name: Char
Vermont (Zone 4b)
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Char
Jul 22, 2016 5:54 PM CST

Moderator

You're welcome!
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
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beckygardener
Jul 22, 2016 5:58 PM CST
I won an auction from him for seeds a few years ago. It was Dragonfly Dawn x Dragonfly Dawn. Out of the 4 seeds that germinated and grew, only one seedling still exists and it is struggling. The others perished after 2 -3 years. Not sure why. I just know they were not strong plants. Or at least could not handle the conditions in my climate and garden. I often wondered if there was something in the genetics of a self-cross of that cultivar that made it "weaker".

Good luck, Maurice! I am sure he will have some to possibly sell to you.
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Name: Daniel Erdy
Catawba SC (Zone 7b)
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ediblelandscapingsc
Jul 22, 2016 9:03 PM CST
I have 3 pods on Forbidden Fantasy that are X Forbidden Fantasy. I ran out of other blooms to cross them with so I said what the heck. I also have 1 pod on Forestlake Ragamuffin that is X Forestlake Ragamuffin same thing happened. I will grow them out just to see what they look like but I don't have any that are already growing that are self-pollinated
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Name: James
South Bend, IN (Zone 5b)
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JWWC
Jul 22, 2016 9:25 PM CST
cybersix said:Maurice, I'm not sure I understood well, but I was just looking at this:
Daylily (Hemerocallis 'Bonibrae Stairway to Heaven')

Is it something like this you were looking for?


That's interesting since I can't get BONIBRAE MISS DIRECTION to set for the life of me.
Name: Daniel Erdy
Catawba SC (Zone 7b)
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ediblelandscapingsc
Jul 22, 2016 9:42 PM CST
JWWC said:

That's interesting since I can't get BONIBRAE MISS DIRECTION to set for the life of me.


Next time try it x's it's self Big Grin
­čî┐A weed is a plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered­čî┐
Name: James
South Bend, IN (Zone 5b)
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JWWC
Jul 22, 2016 9:43 PM CST
I did not that long ago. I'll have to see if it stuck!
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Jul 23, 2016 9:00 AM CST
Hybridizer's description for Bonibrae Miss Direction

"This complex-eyed burgundy-red narrow form can have anywhere from one arrow up to 3 on most days. These flowers which have a nice white-gold edge above a large green throat beg to be noticed! pollen fertile, pods are possible in the right conditions."
Maurice
Name: Dnd
SE Michigan (Zone 6a)
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DogsNDaylilies
Jul 23, 2016 7:31 PM CST
beckygardener said:I won an auction from him for seeds a few years ago. It was Dragonfly Dawn x Dragonfly Dawn. Out of the 4 seeds that germinated and grew, only one seedling still exists and it is struggling. The others perished after 2 -3 years. Not sure why. I just know they were not strong plants. Or at least could not handle the conditions in my climate and garden. I often wondered if there was something in the genetics of a self-cross of that cultivar that made it "weaker".

Good luck, Maurice! I am sure he will have some to possibly sell to you.


....same idea as 'inbreeding' in pets or humans that marry and have kids with people that are too closely related to them...the lack of diversity of genetics means that a negative recessive trait has a higher likelihood of ending up in both alleles if the two parents are closely related.

I do have a few pollinations this year that are self-pollinated flowers. I also have a few where I pollinated them with something else, but made a note that there was already its own pollen on the stigma and self-pollination, though accidental, may have occurred. It'll be interesting to see what becomes of those. One of my intentional self-crosses was a diploid, but I think I also did 2-3 tetraploid self-crosses, too.
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
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beckygardener
Jul 23, 2016 10:04 PM CST
DND - You know, I may have spoke prematurely about DD x DD. I don't actually have Dragonfly Dawn (the parent). It could be that it is one of those cultivars that just does not do well in my climate, which could explain why the children didn't do well either. The blooms were beautiful and I did make some crosses using them as parents. And I also have some crosses of the children with each other. But I thought the same thing as you about inbreeding. I was told by someone here on the forum that that is not an issue with tets.

Now I also need someone to clarify for me about dips. I thought they wouldn't produce seeds if self-pollinated? And I know it is very, very rare for seeds to be produced from a tet x dip (nearly impossible), correct?

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Name: Glen Ingram
Macleay Is, Qld, Australia (Zone 12a)
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Gleni
Jul 24, 2016 12:27 AM CST
One would think that after a century most cultivars are inbreed and similar genetically.
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
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sooby
Jul 24, 2016 5:09 AM CST
Becky, there are dips that will produce seeds from self-pollination, Hemerocallis lilioasphodelus (syn. flava) and 'Stella de Oro' come to mind.
Name: Becky
Sebastian, Florida (Zone 10a)
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Daylilies Hummingbirder Butterflies Seed Starter Container Gardener
Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Birds Ponds
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beckygardener
Jul 24, 2016 6:31 AM CST
Sue - Do most of the more current dips produce seeds if self-pollinated?
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters, compared to what lies within us.
Garden Rooms and Becky's Budget Garden
Name: Sue
Ontario, Canada (Zone 4a)
Daylilies Birds Enjoys or suffers cold winters Native Plants and Wildflowers Butterflies Annuals
Region: Canadian Keeps Horses Dog Lover Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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sooby
Jul 24, 2016 6:47 AM CST
I don't think so but that's a question for Maurice @admmad
Name: Maurice
Grey County, Ontario (Zone 4b)
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admmad
Jul 24, 2016 8:00 AM CST
beckygardener said:Do most of the more current dips produce seeds if self-pollinated?

The answer is not known but I expect that most current diploids will not produce seeds if self-pollinated.


Maurice

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