Post a reply

Image
Oct 13, 2011 10:47 AM CST
Plants Admin
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
Plant Database Moderator Region: California Cottage Gardener Garden Photography Roses Clematis
Daylilies Houseplants Foliage Fan Birds Butterflies Bee Lover
Lee Ann, the Shirley Poppy is a common name, with a few cultivars now added but don't think Shirley Poppy an official cultivar name itself so that should probably be removed.
My gardening Blog!
Handmade quilts, new & vintage fabrics in my Etsy store. Summer Song Cottage
Instagram Sewing posts
Image
Oct 13, 2011 1:07 PM CST
Plants Admin Emeritus
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Aroids Irises I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Vermiculture
Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Composter Plant Identifier
Canna x generalis 'Phasion' syn. 'Tropicanna' may be in the same category. Canna Tropicanna®
As I understand it 'Phaison' is the accepted cv. name now, by RHS and EU in general. Here in the states we all see it as 'Tropicanna'. I don't know how to properly identify the Tropicanna as I've been told to keep cvs. out of the synonym field, hence the common names.
Evan
Last edited by eclayne Oct 13, 2011 8:07 AM Icon for preview
Image
Oct 13, 2011 1:38 PM CST
Garden.org Admin
Name: Dave Whitinger
Southlake, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Tomato Heads Vermiculture Garden Research Contributor
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Ukraine Garden Sages
You're right Evan. Phasion is a cultivar group that includes at least 7 different cultivars. Tropicanna is a trademarked (in the U.S.) name for Phasion.

I'm not sure how to handle this case.
Image
Oct 13, 2011 1:39 PM CST
Plants Admin
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
Plant Database Moderator Region: California Cottage Gardener Garden Photography Roses Clematis
Daylilies Houseplants Foliage Fan Birds Butterflies Bee Lover
Blinking Oh the plant kingdom can be a confusing creature!
My gardening Blog!
Handmade quilts, new & vintage fabrics in my Etsy store. Summer Song Cottage
Instagram Sewing posts
Last edited by Calif_Sue Oct 13, 2011 8:39 AM Icon for preview
Image
Oct 13, 2011 3:12 PM CST
Plants Admin Emeritus
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Aroids Irises I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Vermiculture
Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Composter Plant Identifier
YES! NOT SLEEP DEPRIVED.
Image
Oct 13, 2011 3:15 PM CST
Name: Lee Anne Stark
Brockville, Ontario, Canada (Zone 5a)
Perpetually happy!
Keeps Goats Forum moderator Frogs and Toads Tip Photographer Keeper of Poultry I helped plan and beta test the plant database.
I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Critters Allowed Cottage Gardener Charter ATP Member Lover of wildlife (Raccoon badge) Region: Canadian
I discovered that the "Shirley" poppies are a cultivar group...no idea what that means...maybe because they're so varied in their colours?

Either way, I really believe they should have their own listing.
Image
Oct 13, 2011 3:23 PM CST
Plants Admin Emeritus
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Aroids Irises I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Vermiculture
Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Composter Plant Identifier
Cultivar group, another concept to research. Is that what references to Italian Group Canna cultivars means?
I did find out that Tropicanna is no longer an accepted cv. name in the EU and South Africa as a result of court decisions.
Image
Oct 13, 2011 5:58 PM CST
Plants Admin
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
Plant Database Moderator Region: California Cottage Gardener Garden Photography Roses Clematis
Daylilies Houseplants Foliage Fan Birds Butterflies Bee Lover
Yes, they are a cultivar group, in this case it means that from the original Shirley Poppy, (common name) some hybrids have been discovered or hybridized and named. So yes, for the un-named Shirley Poppies, they should have their own entry but 'Shirley Poppy' isn't technically a cultivar name by itself because of the wide varieties in colors.
If you look at the bottom of the list for the poppies, you'll see where the Shirley Poppy Papaver rhoeas named ones start with 'American Legion'. http://garden.org/plants/brows...
If you do some research on the cultivar names, you could probably find out which cultivar class they belong to, with the Shirley Poppy Papaver rhoeas or the Flanders Field Poppy.The common name Flanders Field Poppy and Shirley Poppy seem to be mistakenly grouped together everywhere, including the database here.

One distinction noted here from that link posted by Myriam, bonitin.
According to the original grower of the Shirley Poppy, "When later writing on the subject, he set out what might be said to be the specification for his Poppy.
He said...
"Let it be noticed that true Shirley Poppies...
(1) are single, (2) always have a white base with (3) yellow or white stamens, anthers and pollen, (4) never have the smallest particle of black about them.
Double Poppies and Poppies with black centres may be greatly admired by some, but they are not Shirley Poppies."

So it already looks like some images may have to be edited out.
My gardening Blog!
Handmade quilts, new & vintage fabrics in my Etsy store. Summer Song Cottage
Instagram Sewing posts
Image
Oct 14, 2011 4:29 PM CST
Plants Admin Emeritus
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Aroids Irises I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Vermiculture
Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Composter Plant Identifier
A few questions about plant names and how the database works.

I'll use Canna 'Tropicanna', ... and Iris as examples:

My research indicates Canna x generalis 'Phasion' is the currently accepted cv. name. In the USA it's most commonly available as 'Tropicanna'. In the UK it's sometimes referred to as 'Durban'. I've seen other references to misnamed plants. At a minimum all three of these cv. names are important for members to both find the plant in question, and get the correct information.

If I understand the Cultivar Groups concept correctly, it is somewhat comparable to classifications of Iris. TB, Aril bred, Siberian, etc. It seems there are many Families or Genus of plants for which this is important information. While some plants currently have the DB configured to accommodate this, it's not part of the "typical" DB proposal structure.

What are your thoughts about adding two fields, one for other names and one for Cultivar Groups (or comparable)?
Image
Oct 16, 2011 3:00 PM CST
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
Would the Synonym field work for that? I know I have been using it for some of the sempervivum. When a search is done for either name it will bring the plant up in the search.
Image
Oct 17, 2011 7:22 AM CST
Garden.org Admin
Name: Dave Whitinger
Southlake, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Tomato Heads Vermiculture Garden Research Contributor
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Ukraine Garden Sages
Lynn, you're thinking on the right track, but synonyms are for botanical name synonyms (genus and species only).

The more I think about this, I am thinking that the best solution is going to be to add an extra field for "Other cultivar names". Then you would enter any additional cultivars into that field, and program it to work just like the extra common names and extra synonyms, where you can add multiple cultivar names, each in their own field, through the "Edit plant name" area.
Image
Oct 17, 2011 8:37 AM CST
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
That sounds great Dave. I can think of one in the Sedum database that it would apply to. Sedum 'Autumn Joy', or Sedum 'Herbstfreude'
Image
Oct 17, 2011 10:13 AM CST
Plants Admin
Name: Suzanne/Sue
Sebastopol, CA (Zone 9a)
Sunset Zone 15
Plant Database Moderator Region: California Cottage Gardener Garden Photography Roses Clematis
Daylilies Houseplants Foliage Fan Birds Butterflies Bee Lover
The rose database itself would be be a big project to transfer over those multiple names but it sure would be a huge asset to have that extra field!
My gardening Blog!
Handmade quilts, new & vintage fabrics in my Etsy store. Summer Song Cottage
Instagram Sewing posts
Image
Oct 18, 2011 11:37 AM CST
Garden.org Admin
Name: Dave Whitinger
Southlake, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Tomato Heads Vermiculture Garden Research Contributor
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Ukraine Garden Sages
Anybody else want to weigh in on this? Or should we proceed with the plan?
Image
Oct 18, 2011 1:47 PM CST
Name: Lynn
Oregon City, OR (Zone 8b)
Charter ATP Member Garden Sages I helped plan and beta test the plant database. I helped beta test the Garden Planting Calendar I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Plant Database Moderator
Forum moderator I helped beta test the first seed swap Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant and/or Seed Trader Garden Ideas: Master Level
I would be interested in doing it. Seems it would make sure a person looking for a particular plant would for sure find it under any of it's known names. : )
But most of the time I don't see the Big Picture. Sticking tongue out
Image
Oct 18, 2011 2:15 PM CST
Plants Admin Emeritus
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Aroids Irises I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Vermiculture
Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Composter Plant Identifier
Will this be without a thumbs up like synonyms?
Image
Oct 18, 2011 2:16 PM CST
Garden.org Admin
Name: Dave Whitinger
Southlake, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Tomato Heads Vermiculture Garden Research Contributor
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Ukraine Garden Sages
Right indeed.
Last edited by dave Oct 18, 2011 9:16 AM Icon for preview
Image
Oct 18, 2011 2:18 PM CST
Plants Admin Emeritus
Name: Evan
Pioneer Valley south, MA, USA (Zone 6a)
Charter ATP Member Aroids Irises I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Tropicals Vermiculture
Foliage Fan Bulbs Hummingbirder Lover of wildlife (Black bear badge) Composter Plant Identifier
Thumbs up pun intended.
Image
Oct 18, 2011 2:27 PM CST
Garden.org Admin
Name: Dave Whitinger
Southlake, Texas (Zone 8a)
Region: Texas Seed Starter Vegetable Grower Tomato Heads Vermiculture Garden Research Contributor
Million Pollinator Garden Challenge Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! Garden Ideas: Master Level Region: Ukraine Garden Sages
Smiling
Image
Oct 18, 2011 6:35 PM CST
Name: Polly Kinsman
Hannibal, NY (Zone 6a)

Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database! I helped plan and beta test the plant database. Region: United States of America Irises Lilies
Seller of Garden Stuff Garden Ideas: Level 1
I think lilium would definitely benefit from it.

You must first create a username and login before you can reply to this thread.
  • Started by: bonitin
  • Replies: 48, views: 2,827
Member Login:

( No account? Join now! )

Today's site banner is by IrisLilli and is called "Purple Crocus Mix"

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.