Plant Database forum: Orchid help

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Name: Melanie Long
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
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mellielong
Sep 16, 2016 11:59 AM CST
I'm looking to add an orchid I saw at Selby Gardens. The tag says Potinara Mystere 'Natsumi'. Yes, the second word is capitalized which makes me think maybe that's not a species name? Plus, the orchid folks change names a lot so when I couldn't find this one, I figured it might have a new name by now. Hilarious!
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Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
Sep 16, 2016 12:15 PM CST
No, it's not a species name. Potinara is a hybrid consisting of (I think) Brassavola, Cattleya, Laelia and Sophronitis as parents ... maybe others too? They're usually listed as x Potinara: http://garden.org/plants/search/text/?q=XPotinara&button= I don't know what the Mystere means and I couldn't find any information on a cultivar with the name of Natsumi.
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Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
Sep 16, 2016 12:40 PM CST
Melanie, I wonder if some of the more knowledgeable Orchidists might have advice about that Potinara? We have some really smart orchid growers on the forum: http://garden.org/forums/view/orchids/
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Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
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Ursula
Sep 20, 2016 5:14 PM CST
Here is the updated name
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/horticulturaldatabase/orchidregister/...
Rlc Mystere
'Natsumi' is the clonal name, meaning that somebody picked out this particular clone and for awards purposes gave it this clonal name in addition to the hybrid name Mystere.
Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
Sep 20, 2016 5:23 PM CST
We have a few Rhyncholaeliocattleya's in the database but Mystere hasn't been added yet. http://garden.org/plants/search/text.php?q=Rhyncholaeliocatt...
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[Last edited by plantladylin - Sep 20, 2016 5:27 PM (+)]
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Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
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Ursula
Sep 20, 2016 5:26 PM CST
Hmmm, please do not add single quotes to the hybrid name Mystere. Only the clonal name / cultivar is written like that. Smiling
Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
Sep 20, 2016 5:28 PM CST
*Blush* oops ... edited it.
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Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
Charter ATP Member Spiders! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Pennsylvania Greenhouse Cactus and Succulents
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Ursula
Sep 20, 2016 5:31 PM CST
Looking at the other Rlc entrees
Rlc Waianae Leopard 'Chin Hua'

I could be going on and on and on - a hybrid is never ever written in single quotes, only the clonal name is.
Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
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Ursula
Sep 20, 2016 5:42 PM CST
If you need to check any orchid hybrid
Here is the link for the RHS register

http://apps.rhs.org.uk/horticulturaldatabase/orchidregister/...

Simply scroll down to the Grex (hybrid) search. Since you are not sure what the Genus name is nowadays but you wish to find out, simply omit the Genus name and just put the hybrid name into the Grex line. Enter.
Sometimes you get a whole list of similar names and you have to fish out the correct one. But most of the time it is pretty clear.
I just typed Waianae Leopard into the Grex line and this is what comes up
Rhyncholaelicattleya Waianae Leopard, I then clicked on the name for more details:
http://apps.rhs.org.uk/horticulturaldatabase/orchidregister/...
Name: Lin
Florida (Zone 9b)
Region: United States of America Morning Glories Region: Florida Houseplants Charter ATP Member I was one of the first 300 contributors to the plant database!
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plantladylin
Sep 20, 2016 5:46 PM CST
I think our Orchid database more than likely has a lot of errors and needs a moderator ... someone who is really knowledgeable and familiar with all those beautiful plants. Whistling

We have moderators for the Daylily Database (Calif_Sue) and the Lilies Database (co-moderators magnolialover and pardalinum) and Irises Database (KentPfeiffer) and Sempervivum Database (co-moderators goldfinch4 and valleylynn) and Hibiscus Database (zuzu) and Roses Database (co-moderators zuzu and Calif_Sue.)

It would be great if every specific plant could have a moderator to help keep things accurate but I realize that takes an awful lot of time and energy! Smiling

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[Last edited by plantladylin - Sep 20, 2016 5:47 PM (+)]
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Name: Ursula
Fair Lawn NJ, zone 6b
Charter ATP Member Spiders! Native Plants and Wildflowers Region: Pennsylvania Greenhouse Cactus and Succulents
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Ursula
Sep 20, 2016 5:57 PM CST
I hear you! But yes, that would be a full time job, especially in the beginning.
Smiling I myself prefer to add only Orchid species to the data base, at least I can be fairly sure it is correct, unless some experts decides a specific group of plants needs to be reorganized....
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
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zuzu
Sep 20, 2016 6:15 PM CST

Plants Admin

The problem is not the lack of a moderator; it's the incompatibility of orchid names with our database. In the case of Rlc Mystere 'Natsumi,' for instance, there is no place in our database for a grex. It can't go on the line for the botanical name because it isn't a species, and also because the system will automatically correct any name following the genus to lower-case. The grex name can't be added on the cultivar line because the system automatically encloses those names in single quotes. I've been trying to get around it by listing the grex as the series name and the clone as the trade name. That's the only way to have one part of the name in single quotes and the other part not in single quotes.
Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Region: Australia Bookworm Cat Lover Lilies Orchids Seed Starter
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Australis
Sep 20, 2016 6:20 PM CST
zuzu said:The problem is not the lack of a moderator; it's the incompatibility of orchid names with our database. In the case of Rlc Mystere 'Natsumi,' for instance, there is no place in our database for a grex. It can't go on the line for the botanical name because it isn't a species, and also because the system will automatically correct any name following the genus to lower-case. The grex name can't be added on the cultivar line because the system automatically encloses those names in single quotes. I've been trying to get around it by listing the grex as the series name and the clone as the trade name. That's the only way to have one part of the name in single quotes and the other part not in single quotes.


I have noticed this and have been following this pattern when proposing additions to the database (I've added a few Cymbidium hybrids, which zuzu has checked and approved for me).

I am not an orchid expert, but would be happy to try to tidy up the Orchid section of the database when I have time.

(Edit: One of my jobs at work is database administrator.)
[Last edited by Australis - Sep 20, 2016 6:26 PM (+)]
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Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
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zuzu
Sep 20, 2016 6:58 PM CST

Plants Admin

Please do tidy it up as much as you can, Joshua. I'll be glad to help you.
Name: Melanie Long
Lutz, Florida (Zone 9b)
Larva tested, Pupa approved!
Butterflies Hummingbirder Birds Bee Lover Enjoys or suffers hot summers Region: Florida
Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Bromeliad Native Plants and Wildflowers Forum moderator Plant Identifier
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mellielong
Sep 20, 2016 7:01 PM CST
Well, I'm glad I posted this thread! And thanks everyone for trying to make the site better! I tip my hat to you.
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Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Region: Australia Bookworm Cat Lover Lilies Orchids Seed Starter
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Australis
Sep 20, 2016 9:50 PM CST
Hi @mellielong,

I've made some proposed changes and additions, so if Zuzu approves, you should see Rhyncholaeliocattleya Mystere 'Natsumi' added soon.
Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Region: Australia Bookworm Cat Lover Lilies Orchids Seed Starter
Annuals Container Gardener Garden Photography
Australis
Sep 20, 2016 10:17 PM CST
@mellielong - you can now access it here: Orchid (Rhyncholaeliocattleya Mystere 'Natsumi')
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
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zuzu
Sep 20, 2016 10:26 PM CST

Plants Admin

This seems to be the best option, but there is a problem even with this method: Trade names are not enclosed in single quotes, but if we don't include the cultivar name as a trade name, the series name won't show up in the main listing and won't determine the alphabetization of the entries.
Name: Joshua
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia (Zone 10b)
Köppen Climate Zone Cfb
Region: Australia Bookworm Cat Lover Lilies Orchids Seed Starter
Annuals Container Gardener Garden Photography
Australis
Sep 20, 2016 10:35 PM CST
Mm. Unfortunately, given the unusual way Orchids are named, I'm not sure there is much else that can be done with the current structure. At least where the trade and series info is entered, the entry does show this information in a box below the title, so most people familiar with Orchid naming will probably realise what has happened.

The other issue is the entry of grexes. There are some entries that are not a specific cultivar, just the cross/grex. The system doesn't allow for a blank cultivar whilst having the series populated, so in this case I've had to leave the grex name in the cultivar field and have the trade name and series blank. Open to suggestions on how else to do this.
Name: Zuzu
Northern California (Zone 9a)
Forum moderator Plant Database Moderator Charter ATP Member Region: California Cat Lover Roses
Clematis Irises Garden Ideas: Level 2 Celebrating Gardening: 2015 Plant Identifier Garden Sages
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zuzu
Sep 20, 2016 10:45 PM CST

Plants Admin

I think I've come up with a solution to the first issue (by adding single quotes to the trade name), but I have to ask Dave whether it can be done. Our system can be sensitive to things like quotation marks where they don't belong.

The second issue is also tricky, but if we're just concerned about the main name of the entry, we can list the grex as a trade name (not a series) and as a cultivar. The main entry will then show the name of the grex without single quotes.

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